bodyfat all in one area ???

I work as a personal trainer. I've done hundreds of bodyfat test on clients and others. But whats got me really confused is people who hold bodyfat only in one area.

I'll give you an example i ran into today.

I did the body fat of a lady, 47 yo & 123lbs, and she carried it all in her hips and butt. Measuring her abs the millimeters was only 5! thats extremely low for a ladies abs. Her Subscapular was 8, her suprailiac was 6, her bicep 3, and her tricep was 12. The tricep is in normal range for a lady. All the rest are extremely low.

But once you get to her hips....bam! She goes from a size 2 waist to a size 6 ass. She's not that concerned with it because she is in shape. I also am an ass man so it doesnt look bad to me. And its firm, not flabby. She says she doesnt have cellulite.

but my question is what the hell do you do to lose bodyfat from areas like that. She is ripped (for 47 yo) in all the rest of her body. Her butt doesnt have dimples or rolls. She is just solid. if she wanted to change her hips look what should she do?

p.s. i also seen this in women who hold it in their boobs/back fat, stomach and arms.

It happens sometimes. I wouldnt say it's a rare thing.

In general her only option (if she were interested, which it sounds like she isnt) is just to lose fat all over. Since that's her biggest storage area, it will mostly come from there.

Also, someone like that should make sure the area in question is very warm during cardio. Lipid stores have poor capillarisation and heat helps to improve blood flow there.



How would you accomplish that? Body wraps?


Doesnt high reps, burning sensation and lactic acid removal help increase capillarisation? You think is she did some real burning in her glute muscles it could help release the fat from there?

I think her fat is intramuscular. Its diffently not subcuntanious under the skin.


I mean, for science

Yeah, men and women are genetically predisposed to carry fat in different areas. My dad is 60 yrs old and he has legs like a bodybuilder, but he has this big ol' gut!

I would agree with doug..he's pretty spot on with what he said.

I used to wear a neoprene belt to generate more heat in my waist. They have neoprene shorts too but they seem like they would be a bitch to get on. Might be easier to wear just the pants of a vinyl sweat suit.

What kind of training is she currently doing?

I'm similar to her, I think my measurement on triceps was 4mm, love handle was maybe 7mm, basically everywhere is well below 10mm, except on my stomach, which IIRC was almost 20.

she trains with a friend of mine. They do circuit type workouts and pilates i believe. I think she does cardio on her own.

Certain types of training can increase capillary density in muscle tissue, sure, but not adipose as far as i know.


As far as keeping the area warm during cardio, use your imagination. Hef has a good response, but a cheaper way might be to wear extra layers of clothing in that region. I sometimes use thermals.


Charles Poliquin has some very nteresting theories regarding this; he calls his methodology "biosignature modulation." As the premise goes, certain hormone profiles affect fat storage patterns and adjustments in diet and lifestlye protocols can be made to accelerate fat loss in certain areas.

The fatty tissues in the areas you described are highly sensitive to estrogen levels for which along with a proper exercise program, he would advise supplementing with indole-3-carbinol along with larger quantities of cruciferous veggies (broccoli and cauliflower) which contain this compound, a naturally occuring potent estrogen modulator/detoxifier.

the way ,or areas that a person stores fat in,is mostly genetic. the number of fat cells that you have only increases twice in your life in preparation for growth and development. what you do when you lose weight is actually reduce the volume contained in the existing fat cells. "spot reducing" is really impossible. to "lose fat" in one area you actually lose fat all over your body by burning more calories than you take in.

the only way to really "spot lose" is liposuction. period. that is the only way to get rid of fat cells. any creams, diets, prohormones, etc. that claim to get rid of fat are snake oil. wraps and creams may dehydrate an area for a short time, but you haven't actually lost fat.

you can build muscle in other areas to balance your appearance, such as building up the shoulders to make your lower body appear smaller, but that's about all.

Skinny chick with a big ass, I really don't see a problem here. What you can do is send her out here to San Francisco, and let me work on her ;)


So he recommends exercise and a diet high in vegetables eh?

Very wierd.


herts, what does he recommend for typical male fat distribution?

i heard that same theory. T-mag had an article years ago with 4 different catergories and what hormones related to them. If i remember thighs and triceps was estrogen. Abs was insulin. I cant remember the last two. GH and Thyriod i think.

Doug, yes lol. Cruciferous veggies AND supplementation. He cant prescribe drugs. While it might initially seem like quackery, he has some logical reasoning behind it. Apparently he came up with it from contrasting skinfold measurements with the blood, urine and saliva test hormone profiles of many clients and athletes he has worked with over the years, and he noticed they represented trends consistent with various studies correlating certain hormones with fat storage in specific areas of the body.

In addition, aside from the natural clients, he's worked with many drug using athletes and body builders which would provide an extreme example of how hormone manipulation affects the human body's fat storage patterns. His recommendations vary depending on the troubled area, but usually consist of one or more manipulations of dietary, lifestyle, training and supplementation protocols based on the chronic levels of cortisol, GH, androgens, estrogens, thyroid, insulin among other factors genetic and conditioned. He covers this in great detail in his seminars.

ChanceDUBois: Typical? Exercise and a 'balanced' diet.

goku- stomach/abs were correlated with cortisol, while triceps were correlated with androgen-dhea/cortisol ratios (since pregnenolone converts to both) he's got 7 'zones' correlated with hormone trends.

i would pay Poliquin type money to go to that seminar. (he charges crazy prices for his stuff) Thats some of the most useful info a personal trainer could have.

I wonder if his Theory 1 manual covers it?

from his website

Biosignature is a novel concept in the field of functional medicine and exercise science developed by world-reknowned Charles Poliquin. Where people store their body fat is an indication of their hormonal profile.

For example, the thickness of one's umbilical skin fold is a reflection of one's cortisol output. It is a direct reflection of one's stress levels and their ability to handle it. Throughout the Biosignature seminar, one will learn the relationship between the levels of insulin, cortisol, thyroid, growth hormone, androgens and estrogens and each corresponding body fat skin fold. Normative data specific to male and female populations is presented.

The Biosignature seminar also includes proposed dietary plans and nutritional supplementation programs that modulate the fat storage patterns to enhance healthy body composition. Read on for more information about this session.

Module 1 - Learning the sites and what they mean

The 12 Biosignature sites, and what they mean - Normative data for females and males
Intake form and Biological signature - Functional medicine tests; Questionnaires

Module 2 - Modulating the Thyroid site

Normative data
Nutrients that modulate thyroid hormone – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Botanicals that modulate thyroid hormone – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Mechanisms responsible for the under-conversion of thyroid hormone.
Eliminating thyroid hormone disruptors

Module 3 - Modulation the Growth Hormone sites

Normative data
Nutrients that increase growth hormone – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Botanicals that increase growth hormone – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Factors interfering with the release of growth hormone
Liver health and growth hormone
Restoring pituitary gland health
Training protocols and loading parameters to increase growth hormone.

Module 4 - Modulating the Androgens sites

Normative data
Nutrients that increase androgens – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Botanicals that increase androgens – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Inhibiting factors and androgens.
Prevention of aromatization of testosterone into estrogens.

Module 5 - Modulating the Insulin sites

Normative data
Mechanisms responsible for the syndrome X
nutrients that modulate insulin response – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Botanicals that modulate insulin response – physiology, posology and contra-indications
Training protocols to improve insulin sensitivity.

Module 6 - Sleep and body composition

The role of sleep in hormonal regulation
Dealing with the patient that can fall asleep but cannot remain asleep
Dealing with the patient who cannot fall asleep
Dealing with the patient with low morning energy because of poor sleep.

goku- the last seminar of his I attended was in 2001 geared towards program design, but he touched up on many other topics including this. From what Ive seen his Theory 1 Manual doesn't cover BM however, just training.

Still sounds like quackery, at least to a degree. Men who sit behind desks and make enough money to see CP and have their fat tested are probably stressed out at work and sit on their duffs all day. BAM, high cortisol and a big gut.

The cortisol level in anorexics is also very high. It's also very high in the morning. So i store more fat in my belly in the morning?

I'm sure there's more to it then just that, but as long as the conclusion is: People store fat in places and to get rid of it you need to eat more veggies, take some supplements and exercise more, then i'm going to be suspicious until i read the studies involved. To be able to come up with and try to prove such massively complicated theory casts doubt on the process it seems.


"Still sounds like quackery, at least to a degree. Men who sit behind desks and make enough money to see CP and have their fat tested are probably stressed out at work and sit on their duffs all day. BAM, high cortisol and a big gut. "

***Right. In men, its largely correlated with the cortisol :androgen ratio, since they have an inverse relationship. Men with disproportionate amounts of abdominal fat tend to have poor muscle development- which corresponds perfectly to having high cortisol/low test levels, and also why this symptom is much more common in middle aged to older men.

I think if you took two twins showing the same overweight symptoms with a disproportionate amount of fat, and had them both follow a sound exercise program and diet, but one supplemented with ataptogens and cortisol suppressants, he would achieve quicker fat loss in his "stubborn" area (abdominal) quicker than his twin.

The purpose or intent of CP's BM isn't to say that its necessary to fix a problematic area, but more like it's a more effective way to approach a problematic area in someone that's exhibiting a disproportionate amount of fat storage in a specific area. I can cite sooooooooooooooo many examples with people I know personally that correspond perfectly with BM methodology; just ask and I'll post next time I get back to this thread.

"The cortisol level in anorexics is also very high. It's also very high in the morning. So i store more fat in my belly in the morning? "

***You of all people know there's many more factors than stress hormones dicating whether or not something is stored than fat; an aneorexic person probably wouldn't experience much if any. Neither I nor poliquin has ever stated that cortisol is the sole determining factor; it's more like it's a significant contributing factor.

"People store fat in places and to get rid of it you need to eat more veggies, take some supplements and exercise more, then i'm going to be suspicious until i read the studies involved. To be able to come up with and try to prove such massively complicated theory casts doubt on the process it seems. "

It's actually quite simple. Look at it this way- your body cells communicate two means- neural and endocrine functions. It's not hard to fathom that manipulating endocrine function might affect fat storage patterns. Transexuals that supplement with estrogen develop female fat storage patterns; hips, thighs, butt, breasts. Same goes for the fe-males; they develop abs and visible arm musculature. ANd we see differing fat storage patterns as we age- we tend to store them differently as a young adult than we will in our senior years due to the decline in endocrine function.

A common observation quoted in medical literature; post menopausal women don't tend to store a lot of fat on their thighs; if they have fat thighs, then they are fat all around. I've never seen an elderly woman past menopausal age with the lean/skinny upper body and thunder-thigh combination; the fat distribution tends to be rather even, either she's fat all around or skinny all around.

I think it's good to keep an open mind; just because a novel practice doesn't have a study yet to verify doesn't mean it doesn't work. We've all learned many things in our own practices that havent been researched or validated yet in a journal but we know or strongly feel to be correct from our own experiences. I know most of the things you do with your athletes haven't been performed and studied in a lab.

Anyway, here's a few study abstracts I quickly pulled off medline to offer some food for thought; there's much more available out there but I don't ahve the time nor inclination to stay up late digging up files.

Horne M, Cizza G; POWER (Premenopausal, Odteopenia/Osteoporosis, Women, Alendronate, Depression) Study Group.

Department of Medicine, Division of Clinical and Molecular Endocrinology, Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland,

OH 44106, USA.

Major depressive disorder (MDD) is one of the most common psychiatric illnesses in the adult population. It is often associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. We measured body fat distribution as well as plasminogen activator inhibitor-1 (PAI-1) concentration and factor VIII (fVIII) activity at 8:00 am and 8:00 pm in 45 premenopausal women with MDD vs 28 healthy controls (age, 37 +/- 6.8 vs 35 +/- 6.5; weight [kg], 75.3 +/- 17.2 vs 67.9 +/- 10.2; mean +/- SD] participating in a prospective study of bone turnover, the POWER Study. At the time of evaluation, women with MDD were mildly depressed and mostly in clinical remission on antidepressants. After adjusting for body weight, women with MDD had greater waist circumference and abdominal fat as well as significantly higher evening (8:00 pm) PAI-1 and fVIII levels than controls. Even when age-, race-, and body mass index-matched subsets were compared, the MDD group continued to exhibit statistically higher PAI-1 and fVIII levels. The observed alterations in body fat distribution (increased abdominal fat) and prothrombotic factors (increased PAI-1 and fVIII) may be in part responsible for the increased risk of cardiovascular disease reported in association with major depression.

Circulating oxidized LDL is associated with increased waist circumference independent of body mass index in men and

Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Jan;83(1):30-5; quiz 181-2.

(LDL oxidation and stress/cortisol are known to have a direct correlation)

Circulating levels of oxidative stress markers and endothelial adhesion molecules in men with abdominal obesity.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Dec;90(12):6454-9. Epub 2005 Sep 27.

Effects of Androgen Therapy on Adipose Tissue and Metabolism in Older Men

Goodpaster BH, Kelley DE, Wing RR, Meier A, Thaete FL 1999 Effects of weight loss on regional fat distribution and insulin

sensitivity in obesity

Bhasin S 2003 Effects of testosterone administration on fat distribution, insulin sensitivity, and atherosclerosis progression.

Clin Infect Dis 37(Suppl 2):S142?S149

Marin P 1995 Testosterone and regional fat distribution. Obes Res 3(Suppl 4):609S?612S

I'd also like to add- Poliquin is known for being rediculously thorough; he monitors all aspects of his clients lives and records these statistics; what they eat, their lifestyles, how they progress and their precise training program, and how exactly they are responding to their program at a specific given point in time- thats what gives him a great perspective and advantage over many coaches IMO. With the numberand diversity of athletes and years of experience he has, in addition to his meticulousness and his constant reading on the latest research, he's able to puck up on trends others don't. It's the same formula that worked so well for the former soviet union's sport science research machine.