I think conditioning is very important too.
Most fights do end quickly but if you are fighting someone much bigger than you or really tough or well skilled you may not be able to beat him right off the bat, but if you can hang in there and be defensive and just SURVIVE eventually he will get tired and then it can be your turn to pour it on.
SBJUDO is correct
IMHO, I don't think one really has to train in too many
different MA artform and styles to learn how to effectively defend themselves in the "streets" or "bars"
With that said...I've said this before and I'll say it again...many people give way too much credit to the "streetfighter" or the so-call "tough guy" one may meet in a bar or the like. Those guys are only tough because of their reputation. But that are not as tough as we may think. People, because of their own perceptions make them tougher then they really are.
The reality is many people have effectively used boxing to defend themselves in both the street and bars. So boxing as a means of self-defense is proven. Especially when you consider the percentages of "boxers" who have used it in "streetfights" and "bars" with great results. Lets face it alot of people who are "boxer" by profession LIVE in areas that are full of streetfighters and tough guys. I'm more than sure that a great many of them have TESTED thier boxing skills in the street and are fully aware that a "street or Bar fight is different than a boxing match. But they, like and prudent and discerning person are capable of adjust their skills to fit the needs of their circumstances.
Evander Holyfield talked about street fights on Bill Maher's show "Politically Incorrect". He told a shocked Bill Maher the difference between a street fight and a Boxing match. He talked about how in a street fight anything goes including biting, eye gouges etc. He stated that he wouldn't hesitant to bit someone in a streetfight. I got the sense that, this is exactly what he did in the past (Holyfield like Tyson and many other boxers, came from the "streets" so he knows what "street Violences" is all about).
My whole point is many Boxers, because of the background and home life, have experience fighting in the streets. And believe me they use their boxing skills as well as the other stuff one may learn on the street to their advantage. And it usually them (the boxer) who is in trouble with the law because they broke someones nose, jaw or knock them out in a "streetfight or Bar fight.
Many a "streetfighter" has met a "boxer" in the streets and wish they hadn't.
Stevie Johnson is a great boxer he is also a well know streetfighter too. I live in Denver and I know of his reputation of "handling folks in clubs, bars and the streets".
Any training done against a resisting opponent, in a
fluid situation, is better the nothing
mg where you at man. I'm from Denver. Do you train? Lets hook up and work out sometime.
badintentionsko@aol.com
Buddie,
Yes, I train.
I train with Ninomiya, which is on 4705 east colfax.
I've trained with him for 12 years. But I don't do much Sabaki anymore I devote most of my time training Judo (with him on Fridays).
I train every day (drills, both standup: sabaki/boxing and Judo/Bjj); I spar on fridays.
I'm a drill fanatic. So I do a ton of different drills including SAQ (Speed, Agility, Quickness) drills.
I used to do alot of training with a guy name Robyn who runs the Proexotic reptile shop (he trains w/ Dave Ruiz) as well as a guy named Don Gibson who trains with Sheldon Mar down at Grapplers Edge. But because of scheduling conflicts I haven't been able to train with them.
E-mail me at gallantm@mscd.edu
I'm moving right outside of denver (lakewood) in Oct. I'll have to check you guys out.
I'm into TKD right now, but always looking to expand.
either boxing or bjj or both, to work on rounding off.
Being familiar with someone throwing technically correct punches is a big help when your average untrained bum starts swinging. Well so I think.
I think the ability to slip a punch and counter is
also a lot of help in a street fight. Boxers in
general hit hard, have good balance, have quick hands,
and are difficult to hit clean. In a 15 second bar
fight that's pretty much all you need. All the road
work probably helps when it comes time to run away too.
I think if you add judo or wrestling in there, that
would be more than enough for the average guy. Maybe
not if he wants to be a superhero, but for a kid that
just wants to keep his lunch money that's plenty.
I think boxing is also hugely helpful when dealing with weapons. Obviously anyone armed with a weapon has a huge advantage, but i think a boxer has a better chance of evading any debilitating strikes and make a run for it than a grappler who isnt used to keeping distance. Boxing is also relitively easy to translate to weapons usage. After all, fast hands are fast hands wether they're used as fists or holding a broken bottle.
SJFOU...I'm similar in terms of height and weight...and yeah...i had problems going up against the 200lbs. Even though they toss out the hulk hogan type punches...so i alwayz instinctively grapple them to the ground.
True, there might be a "sweet spot" for height and
weight. I'm a bigger guy and tend to be lumbering
and slow. The little bit of boxing I was taught went
a long way towards helping overcome this. Enough
for me to keep my lunch money anyway.
I use to box a while ago. Actually, I started when I was fourteen and stopped when I was 18. I am 27 now and have been training off and on every since. I took a little Muay Thai and Judo for like 4 months. I was trying to find the style that I would commit to. I like Muay Thai, but I did not feel that it was the best way to spend my time because I am already a striker. I know the basics of the techs now anyway, so I still work on them. Judo was fine just not the way it was taught at the school that I was at. I will start taking BJJ next week. However, I am also considering taking Hapkido along with it. I feel that these two arts fill the gaps of boxing in the case of BJJ and compliment boxing in the case of Hapkido with its joint locks and throws. How do you all feel about this combo and would it be too much to take BJJ and Hapkido together? I will be taking BJJ Monday, Wednesday, and maybe Friday. I was considering Hapkido for Tuesday and Thursday.
it really depends on how the instructors are teaching the hapkido. like any style, it can be taught combative or it can be taught fantasy-like. don't take my post the wrong way, i'm not bashing hapkido. i'm just saying it really depends on how the instructor is teaching the material. case in point, there are combative ways to teach tai chi (yes, tai chi) and there are ways to teach it for health. *flame proof armor*
it is not easy to pull off joint locks, i.e., it is not easy looking to pull off a joint lock right off the bat. generally, you soften the guy up first with hits, and then go to a joint lock.
Hi, I'm a beginner boxer. A couple of months ago, at the SBG's Training Camp, hosted by the Singer Brothers. I and a few others were giving the chance to spar, spar very lightly with a BOXER. The word was, he'll hit you as hard as you hit him. It was incredible. I will never view boxing as anything but a very effective way of defending yourself. If I ever run into a guy that moves like that boxer, I'm running!
Gerald Boggs
The degree to which people underestimate boxing's street effectiveness is laughable. People assume that having more weaponds is automatically better. Think about a few things. Can you use a kick and a punch at the same time? No, atlease not with both being at full power. Simply put, you can only really use one weapon at a time. Sure, I realize that having more weaponds gives an opponent more to worry about, but the more weaponds that you have the less prificiant you will be at the use of any. Is boxing superior? No! Does it have limitations? Yes! So do all other MA, BJJ, MT, and so on. The funny thing is that so many of those fighters in MMA and NHB are taking up boxing and using it albeit sloppilly except maybe Vetor. Boxing is good for street fighting for a number of reasons. Punches are alot easier to land than kicks and they are faster. Throwing punches does not compromise your balance the way kicks do. In terms of footwork, boxing is superior to most martial arts. In terms of using the space, a boxers footwork is one of his greatest weaponds. The combination is also one of his/her greatest weaponds. People say that boxers do not learn eye gauges and so on. I agree, but imagine trying to gauge say Roy Jones.
You also don't get to see countess miles of tape on
your opponent in the street so you don't know what
he's capable of, if he's a good grappler or whatever.
Knowing 1 or 2 things really well will go a lot further
than knowing 100 techniques half-assed.
I think boxing is effective simply because it's simple
in the number of techniques learned. In a 15 second
street fight a couple of quick straight hands and a
hook the other guy didn't see coming are pretty much
all you need to get the job done. He won't have time
to realize you don't know how to kick, and since you're
sending him to the ground alone, grappling skills are
a moot point.
All very good post!
My experience over the years has been that everytime I saw a street fight where a boxer was involved, the boxer finished the fight quickly. Most of these were young and had a few years experience. So I have to agree that boxing brings out attributes and skills quicker than most arts.
In Filipino Boxing I have been taught nice elbowing, destructions, body checks and covers. They use "cheap" shots and "dirty" techniques. All very good stuff!!! Especially taken with actual boxing sparring it gives a great street flavor to your boxing arsenal.
Now in Muay Thai I have seen guys resort to their boxing to much and get their legs pulverised for it. I also watched a match where the opponent went for a clinch and got his ribs kneed to the point I was cringing. And the most fight enders I have seen were the elbow either from knockout or severe bleeding. So I feel Thai Boxing is much more effective for all around stand up simply because it addresses all standing weapons for offence and defense.
Luckily where I train, the Thai, Filipino, and American Boxing are in the same gym, so I don't see a diffence between the hand skills we use. One is just more specialized in its focus than the others. And the Thai is more rounded for all standing ranges.
And of course if you get taken down, you better know how to roll.
All in all, some form of boxing, because of its strong hitting skills, solid defensive structure, and the fact that the training method usually involve actual full contact sparring will instill the quickest results. Boxing with a little grappling is in my oppinion superior in a street encounter than a wrestler with a little boxing experience.
Ray White
www.absolutejkd.com