The whole concept and science of boxing is much easier to learn than grappling or jiu-jitsu. It's just a way more painful experience.
It depends a lot on your physical attributes such as agaility, body size, eye hand cordination etc...if you know how to dance it will help you be a better boxer
hit and don't get hit
"It depends a lot on your physical attributes such as agaility, body size, eye hand cordination etc...if you know how to dance it will help you be a better boxer."
Good Point! A taller...lankier person seems to excell better in striking( muy thai and boxing )...while shorter stockier guys excell at the wrestling/judo game.
I see alot of points made. The best one is Humongous shouldnt be sparring yet. That is true. The other thing that i would need to know is the volume of padwork/defensive drills that the guys are doing to learn how to box. Footwork and timing are much easier to get down with a good padman and dedicated padwork than with heavy bag and sparring.
Sparring too early just teaches new people getting hit sucks. It also reinforces and points out bad habits rather than correcting them. Sparring is to point out weaknesses, pad work is for fixing them.
Another point was made about all out grappling can be at a harder pace to give practitioners earlier confidence/feedback than what we see boxing and kickboxing, this is true. But padwork and drills is where someone learning to punch or punch-kick has a big advantage. In a grappling class it eats up big chunks of time to go through position and technical drills. In a three minute pad drill I can have a guy throw 180-300 punches (depending on how hard we push and amount of defense, this is focus only, no thai pads) easily. That is ALOT of reps in three minutes, and if guys are doing 3-6 rds of padwork with a good padman 3 days a week as part of thier striking training They will get very solid VERY fast.
Everyone says its so much easier to learn grappling, but do you ever see guys with 6 months grappling (no wrestling, starting from scratch) come in an even begin to hang with purple belt level guys who are of equal size/physical ability? Hell no (if so mr 6 months is lying, a phenom, or mr purple is not as he appears). So it only makes sense a guy with 6 months boxing/kickboxing will struggle sparring with a guy of say 4-5 years exerience. Its as it should be.
Lots of people are funny about fists in their grill though. Some are really flinchy (usually from sparring too early) and squeamish about contact. This just takes a focus on defensive drills and padwork with defense, that's all.
Interesting.
Tell me more of this 'box-ing' you speak of.
It all depends on your mindset. Physically Hand Eye coordinated fighters tend to be better strikers while, feelers tend to be better grapplers. The thing is there is a different body conditioning to be a striker.
I think it depends on u, when u go from strking to grappling or grappling to striking it can be tough.... u just have to out ur heart into and dont give up ..
"It all depends on your mindset. Physically Hand Eye coordinated fighters tend to be better strikers while, feelers tend to be better grapplers. The thing is there is a different body conditioning to be a striker."
GODDAMNIT!!! I'm fucking near sighted...no wonder I get jacked up striking...buttttttttttttttttt I'm a great mastrabator...hence my grappling is pretty good. :):):)
For me going from a kickboxing background into grappling was pretty easy tansition. For others I know and trained with (some of which have fought in the UFC) had amazing wrestling backgrounds but seemed to have a VERY hard time adapting to kickboxing.
Maybe it has something to do with already feeling comfortable with the kicking and punching range before your learn to grapple. These 2 zones don't really seem to exist in pure grappling. The grappling takedown range is something that kickboxers already basically know as the clinch.
"BJ Penn achieved BJJ world champion title after three years of training. No one can do this in boxing, no matter how talented they are."
That also speaks to the talent pool though. There are a hell of a lot more athletes you'd need to climb over to be a world champion boxer (even amateur), as opposed to a world champion BJJer.
"Nobody is going to start boxing for 3 years and win their state golden gloves in their weight div. which i find comparable to naga"
That is a silly statement, because if you compare say, North Carolina to Pennsylvania there is a HUGE difference in the number of people training and competeing at the amatuer level in boxing. Probably more amatuer boxers just in Illonois, New York and Pennsylvania than there are amatuer grapplers in the whole country.
Bonner was a golden gloves champ, after 3yrs or less if I am not mistaken. Golden gloves also has several divisions as well. Not a good example.
I guarantee there are guys winning golden gloves championships with 3 yrs of training. But They are guys who take to boxing like ducks to water.
The thread title is about how boxing is hard to learn, not which one is easier to compete in, because grappling is MUCH easier to compete in at a national level.
Boxing + kickboxing isn't hard to learn for everybody.
I picked it up relatively about as quick as I picked up wrestling...picked up jiujitsu a bit quicker but I was already a wrestler which probably helped that along.
Take a good sweeping single. Took me forever to figure out how to catch guys with it. Took me less time to figure out how to land to the body hard.
BTW if I recall, Dan Henderson said boxing was easy for him to learn and if he had to start with a base (other than wrestling) he'd make it jiujitsu over boxing or kickboxing, because it takes so long to become proficient enough to use it in a fight.
Yea but ya gotta say one thing about Dan's standup...it's fairly effective. Not to mention plenty of guys in boxing had an ugly but effective style. George Foreman has to be the first one to come to any boxing fans mind. Go into any credible boxing gym and start to mimic the way Foreman used to box in his hayday...you will likely get guys laughing at you.
Course if you can land the Foreman used to nobody will be laughing...they may be running.
Also, Dan looks sloppy cuz he throws that cross long all the time...he does it because nobody wants to clinch with him. Throwing the cross long, even though it looks sloppy is a good way to make a guy either stay in your range of power or force him to clinch....Dan's standup isn't really as sloppy as it looks in that regard.
"A nice heavy bag and music and practicing the basic motions is all you need- the footwork is part ryhtem/part strategy."
Sounds like a pretty good formula for learning some bad habits early. No one is going to legitiamately learn how to fight a trained boxer kickboxer doing that. You need a good coach/padman and ALOT of drill/pad time. Heavy bag is for training AFTER you learn how to hit/move/fight.