Boxing Ineffective?

Underground
1

Of course it's not but it seems that people that are good boxers are having trouble fighting people with unorthodox striking skills.

Gomi's strikes were powerful and accurate but he definitely doesn’t have good "boxing" technique but he was able to defeat Pulver in a standup war.

I believe that Mino is a much better boxer but Fedor was able to land bomb after bomb during their fight. Fedor's striking technique seems a bit wild but was effective to say the least.

It seems like the "boxers" are getting confused by people who don't strike at them like a boxer. When punches start coming from different angles than what they are used to suddenly they don’t know what to do.

How much value does pure boxing have in MMA? I believe holds allot of value but it seems like an ok striker that attacks with aggressiveness and power can be just as effective as a profficiently trained striker.

But what do I know, I do BJJ :)

Ian

2

I don't think boxing is ineffective, but we all just witnessed the
inherent problem with detached striking: no matter how proficient of a
striker you are, you run the risk of being "caught". Now, unless you've
got a cranium like Mark Hunt, maybe taking that risk isn't such a good
idea.

Jens' boxing skills looked incredible. Watching how smooth he was and
relaxed was a thing of beauty and he was totally out boxing Gomi.
However, Gomi was bigger and stronger and it only took one clean
shot.

Mino's boxing skills were much better than Fedor's, but he couldn't
land anything cleanly (not sure why he didn't throw the right more) and
Fedor delivered some serious damage with poor boxing skills.

Silva and Hunt... this is what happens when you're striking with a
bigger and stronger (and better) striker. Silva got fucked from taking
hits. Randy's comment about "You'd see the fastest double leg..." were
pure words of wisdom.

It seems that detached striking lacks one very essential element that is
the bread and butter of BJJ: Positional Dominance.

I'm not talking about "striking" in general, I'm just talking about
"detached" striking/trading.

Randy isn't the greatest striker in the world but because he's a genius
with positional dominance, his "dirty boxing" puts him in a position
where he can safely deliver strikes and has very little risk of getting
"caught".

If Randy were to stand and trade with a better boxer, he'd run the risk
of getting caught with one shot, and that's all it takes. So he fights
smarter and uses position.

It's much easier to observe on the ground as it's very difficult to get
"caught" from a superior ground position, but "attached striking"
seems to offer the same advantages. Detached striking does not.

Of course you still have to be "better" to utilize the position, but I think
working until you get the position first is much less risky than trying to
land a KO (and stand the risk of getting KO'd).

Just a thought.

zhoo-zhitsu! zhoo-zhitsu! zhoo-zhitsu!

Yea, if jiu-jitsu had nuts... i'd hug them.

3

I think both Pulver and Noguiera were just a little too passive (Noguiera far more than Pulver).

Gomi actually had good boxing skills, he said he'd been working a lot of boxing in an interview and it showed. You can't throw those kinda body/head combo's with poor boxing. Pulver may have had better technique but he was looking for the perfect counter and it never came.

As for Noguiera you could see he wanted to counter Fedors looping left jabs with a right straight but he did so very few times. He was far too passive.

Noguiera could deffinatly learn a thing or two from Gomi. Gomi knew he could take a shot (as can Noguiera) so he through with a lot of aggression knowing if he got hit he could take it. A large part of a good defence is a good offence anyway.

4

Learning defense wearing boxing gloves, against someone wearing boxing gloves causes a bit of a problem in the transition to MMA gloves, too. Not as big of a glove to cover up with, and a smaller glove is coming at you and is able to penetrate small gaps that a boxing glove wouldn't be able to.

5

It's true in a lot of ways. Nog is a good boxer, and when put against another good boxer in Kharitonov, he looked great, but he had nothing for Fedor. Gomi outstruck Pulver. Chris Lytle is a good solid boxer, but isn't exactly lighting guys up standing, for the most part.

I agree about Nog's passivity, and have also always wondered why he doesn't throw power shots, having little to fear with his insane chin. He opened up against Sergei, and it worked great. He also has a reach advantage over Fedor.

6

Indeed. Jens took a few shots that would have been deflected by boxing gloves.

7

Never thought of the smaller glove not being able to deflect more shots, but it does make sense.

8

When these guys are learning boxing they are learing pure boxing from a boxing coach. These coaches may be excellent boxing coaches but could it be possible they are teaching the fighters bad habits for MMA? Distancing and such are different in MMA as there is much more to be concerned about.

I agree with asymmetrik about the attached and detached striking.

I am certainly not an expert but it seems like it could be possible that although they are training hard to learn a certain aspect of the game (boxing)maybe they havent learned how to intergrate that into the entire gameplan. For example what skills does a boxer have that translate directly to mma. Obviously there some things that work, and some things that could be thrown away.

I can understand Mino wanting to box but damn he is one of the best submission guys in the world, shouldnt he be working on his takedowns instead? But thats a different thread.

Ian

9

I think you guys are making a little to much out of this. Jens was outboxing Gomi, his jab was landing almost everytime he threw it, but he was being to passive and waiting to counter to much with a big left hand. Gomi def. showed some pure boxing skills, to say he hasnt been working his boxing would be rediculous. His hook to the body, hook to the head combo was crisp and powerfull. Had Jens been more aggressive he would have won probably.

With Mino, he was WAY to passive with his striking. He would just stand there at times and wait for Fedor to throw his right hand before trying to come forward. He needed to be more aggressive, he was just to hesitant to pull the trigger

10

Why were they so passive though? My theory is that since they were being attacked in an unorthodox manner it threw them off a bit.

Gomi showed some really good striking skills but I dont think any real boxers would be too impressed with his technichal ability. Powerful, accurate, and effective but maybe not the best technician. In MMA maybe thats all you need.

Ian

11

Gomi was technically sound. He kept his guard low at times but that was mostly when he was really winning and there was little offence from Pulver.

Gomi showed good boxing skills.

12

The size of the gloves makes a huge difference. Wide, looping shots that get blocked with a boxing glove, find their way through, with MMA gloves.

The style of boxing should be more in question, than boxing itself. An aggressive style like a Ricardo Mayorga has, is going to work better for MMA, than a style like Pernell Whitaker's would have. But in my opinion, Pernell beats Mayorga 9 times out of 10 in a boxing match.

Nothing beats straight crisp punches as far as boxing go's, but they are the punches that you can parry. Looping wide shots require a fighter to block, or move his head, and blocking with smaller gloves usually means the punches are going to get through.

But, get to wild with those arcing, looping punches, and straight punches will beat you right down the middle. That's the beauty of it all.