British illusionist exposes faith healing frauds

Some may know the british illusionist, mentalist and magician Derren Brown who has during his 10-year TV career on mainly British TV starred in shows such as "mind control", "something wicked this way comes", and "hero at 30,000 feet" among others. He has always been honest about being an entertainer first and foremost and that he uses trickery, classic magic, sleight of hand and psychological manipulation to create the impression of him having psychic and magical abilities.

He has always had a horn in the side towards charlatans and frauds such as Peter Popoff who also use trickery and classic tricks but claim to actually have special powers, and also charge a hefty fee for showing them off. In a previous show called "Messiah" he goes to the US to try to come across among psychic mediums and such as one of their own and they are all very impressed with his "abilities" that they percieve to be real.

Yesterday on british channel 4 his new show "miracles for sale" was broadcast, this one features not him as the main person, but a team trains a British Scuba instructor to appear as a faith healer and during 6 months he is taught manners, speaking voice, suggestion, manipulation and trickery to become the real deal, and finally gives a performance in front of a devout crowd in Texas, performing "healings".

As in all of Derren's productions he is careful not to offend but to entertain end educate since he is truly a great humanist who is genuinely concerned about the people who either die or live with false promises after giving all their money to frauds who claim to heal people in God's name and blame them for lack of faith when they turn out not to be healed at all.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/derren-brown-the-specials/4od#3182173

The show can be viewed there, though it cannot be viewed in all countries. It can also be downloaded at the pirate bay for example and viewed at youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nUrPWLxqJI.


I really recommend the show, if you look for entertainment you should probably go to his earlier productions since he now focuses more on education and personal transformation, but it is at the same time a heart-warming and slightly unpleasant view into the world of faith healing. Check it out and give your views on it.

 All faith healers have turned out to be frauds when put under scrutiny, if one ever does master the way of healing, he will become world famous, and be worshipped.

Robert Wynne -  All faith healers have turned out to be frauds when put under scrutiny, if one ever does master the way of healing, he will become world famous, and be worshipped.


I'm glad frauds are exposed. Satan always tries to mimic "the real thing". However, there are real healings. All healings come from JEsus not from the person praying. Some have a "gift" of healing or the faith for healing. We have had several "quiet" miracles of healing in our church (a little girl with months to live with a tumor wrapped around her spine and into her brain, was one I witnessed). .

Our preachers aren't on TV, they don't ask for money for healing, they don't put the spotlight on themselves. It's biblical obedience to pray, fast and lay hands on the sick in Jesus name believing and if possible, if the Lord will, he may heal. Praise God he has!

The greatest healing is the soul and the mind. That He has done over and over.

"It's biblical obedience to pray, fast and lay hands on the sick in Jesus name believing and if possible, if the Lord will, he may heal"


i personally believe it is always the lords will to heal. in scripture, it says over and over "and he healed ALL who came to him". we just have to know that it is his will, and just accept his touch. i have seen many healings, experienced one myself, and know he is still the same today.

one must also know that not all "faith healers" are frauds, but if any of them take credit for, or say that THEY healed someone, they are to be disregarded immediately. the gifts listed in the new testament are still around today. they didnt just disappear. nowhere in the bible does it say the events listed in the book of acts and written about in the letters of the new testament will someday be taken away from us.

the problem with today is we let what others teach us growing up, our elegant resources, or just plain lack of seeking God keep us from knowing him enough to take him at his word, reaching out in faith, and experiencing the same things the early church did.

i have found that the more hungry i am for God and his presence, the more he meets me right there. God is exactly like what a loving father here on earth should be. if we had the power on our own to heal, and one of our kids was sick, wouldnt we, without hesitation, heal them of their disease? or better yet, if our kids did something we didnt like, would be put a disease on them to "teach them a lesson"? God doesnt as well.

sickness and disease are merely a product of the fall, not always demonic activity, and definitely not punishment from God. they may be the result of sin as a natural occurance...like a sexual disease for sex outside marriage, or cancer from smoking when we know we shouldnt have, but God isnt some celestial tyrant with a hammer ready to smash the sinner. he is a loving father that would want his people to come to a knowledge of saving truth.


its up to us as to how close we get to God to receive his blessings and most of all, have him walk beside us as adam did.

anyway, sorry for the rant, carry on, lol

rooster... the power is within..as Christ taught, the girl was healed by the power of those praying for her..i.m.o.

 

 example

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Robert Wynne - rooster... the power is within..as Christ taught, the girl was healed by the power of those praying for her..i.m.o.
 


RW the power is only within if you have the creator of the universe living w/in :-)

They were praying not to themselves or praying for their internal powers to heed their imploring, but praying to an external deity (YH) when YHShuah showed up on the scene and answered their prayers!

Great post dying breed

 rooster..we all have the power within..it was given to us by the Creator.

 John 14:12 " I tell you the truth, anyone who believes in me will do the same works i have done, and even greater works...."

Right, but He said "believes in me..." Not "...anyone who believes in themselves and their own inner power".

It's the Spirit of Jesus that brings healing, in you and around you when you have experienced the new birth (John 3:3) :-)

the rooster - Right, but He said "believes in me..." Not "...anyone who believes in themselves and their own inner power".



It's the Spirit of Jesus that brings healing, in you and around you when you have experienced the new birth (John 3:3) :-)
the new birth is the awaking to your power, when i was baptized, that was just an act specifing my acceptance that i am a child of the Father, that i accept his point of view for my life while exercising my free will, which happens to connect me to my power that i am given, the same power that seperates me from the animals, when Christ opened the door to heaven it was the opening of the connection to the kingdom, in a kabbalistic viewpoint, we can now advance towards the next level which leads to the final direct connection with the source of it all, which is commonly called by the german title, God.



Later in the same conversation in John chapter threee, we see Christ telling us, that no one had gone to heaven and returned, but through his death and victory over death we now have a direct link to Heaven. A little farther down we see that God gave the assignment to his one and only son, and that his son was not here to judge the world, but to save it, by giving us the knowledge we see a little further down, which is to attract ourselves to the light and not the dark.



The ways used by followers of the light, have a proven track record of leading to inner understanding, and to abilities above those who are not connected. This knowledge was what lead to the re-writing once of what was then the accepted Christian Bible, and the re-worked version known as the king james version, the knowledge that it is a singular connection and not a church or pastor connection, lead to a temporary upheavel in the Church of England, causing the matter to come before king james and leading to the new officially authorized version, which is why it carried his name.



I believe many of the denominations have seeked to cover up this truth, because it's knowledge would remove their importance in our society, this is the secret knowledge, the real tree of life.





We see things different in form and practice, but we both see the importance of the connection, martial artists and others call it "Chi" you call it "Holy Ghost" but it is the same thing, and leads to the same place.

  

Robert, I've come to enjoy reading your posts but let me agree to disagree with you on a few points:

You:..the new birth is the awaking to your power,

me: actually no. the new birth is not an awakening of our power but being filled with His power. Remember He would send the comforter, that He told His apostles to go to Jerusalem and they would be filled with power "from on high...". When they received the Holy Spirit, in Acts 2, observers thought they were drunk. Peter stood up and said, 'we are not drunk as ye suppose, ...but this is that which was prophesied by the prophet Joel, that in the last days, I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh...".

The New Birth is not our own untapped power, but tapping into His power.

you: when i was baptized, that was just an act specifing my acceptance that i am a child of the Father, ... A little farther down we see that God gave the assignment to his one and only son, and that his son was not here to judge the world, but to save it, by giving us the knowledge we see a little further down, which is to attract ourselves to the light and not the dark.

me: Robert, you say above that you are a child of the father. And then a little later, that Jesus was His one and only son. If you are a child of the father, aren't you also a son of God?

you: The ways used by followers of the light, have a proven track record of leading to inner understanding, and to abilities above those who are not connected. This knowledge was what lead to the re-writing once of what was then the accepted Christian Bible, and the re-worked version known as the king james version, ...

me: but if you read the dead sea scrolls, you will see no significant difference between the scriptures their and in the KJV?

thanks.

you: actually no. the new birth is not an awakening of our power but being filled with His power. Remember He would send the comforter, that He told His apostles to go to Jerusalem and they would be filled with power "from on high...". When they received the Holy Spirit, in Acts 2, observers thought they were drunk. Peter stood up and said, 'we are not drunk as ye suppose, ...but this is that which was prophesied by the prophet Joel, that in the last days, I will pour out of my Spirit on all flesh...".





me;but when you was filled with the holy spirit the power became yours. and it turned out that those were not the last days of life here on earth but were instead the last days of the Jewish empire.





you;The New Birth is not our own untapped power, but tapping into His power.



me;so then you would leave me to believe that you as an individual gained nothing by your new birth.



you: Robert, you say above that you are a child of the father. And then a little later, that Jesus was His one and only son. If you are a child of the father, aren't you also a son of God?



me; Christ said, "Anyone who follows His Fathers ways, He would call, Brother...."

I follow Fathers ways and thus Fathers only begotten Son is my Brother, which makes His Father,My Father.



you: but if you read the dead sea scrolls, you will see no significant difference between the scriptures there and in the KJV?



me; I see significant differences. and the book of Thomas shows even more proof of this.

if i may comment...(and let me know if this is an A-B conversation)....



"then you would leave me to believe that you as an individual gained nothing by your new birth."

how could tapping into his power be gaining nothing? over and over in scripture it speaks of the positive results of attaining the spirit of God.

where might i get a copy of the book of thomas? i have heard about it few times, but never knew what it contained, or how to get it

gospel-thomas.net/gtbypage_112702.pdf 




I strongly encourage people to watch the show, and other shows like it. As a non-believer, I myself do not believe in the healing of ailments by supernatural intervention. But I hold this stance because of evidence, not of want. If I was to engage in wishful thinking, which is twisting your judgement of information to make it suit your personal wishes, I would end up being wrong more often than I do now, and I am often wrong on things. It would be very convenient for me if belief and praise could cure my eye problems, but so far nothing has shown that it could be done, therefore I find no reason to believe it.


I go through life knowing that I can be wrong about everything, and may be proven wrong about anything, and I really think the world would be a better place if all people were of the same opinion, if you can call it that.

That is all for tonight. =)

per, a little girl was healed by Jesus of a brain tumor wrapped around her spine and into her brain stem. Was given 3 mos to live. church prayed and fasted and she was healed by God. Doctors called it a miracle and couldn't explain.

No tv, no money requested, no fan fare, no personal glorification. just a little girl who was healed by the Lord.

very good post rooster