Bruce Lee fans WTF?

Bruce Lee was to mma what Jimi Hendrix was to rock guitar.  He was an obsessed innovator and yes he would've fucked up many an early UFC fighter.  

He died before any of this happened. And he was one of the FIRST to stray from his own discipline and incorporate other styles into his fighting.  If you know anything about fighting, then you can see that his punches and kicks were pretty awesome and his technique was dead on. 

He may have been a great mma fighter or he may not have had the chin for it and been a flop.  

The only things that I saw were: excellent physical conditioning, speed and great technique, obsessiveness and confidence and a willingness to learn different skills. And to me it adds up to a very tough if not championship caliber fighter. But I have no clue and neither do you because the fucker died young. 

One thing for sure, the VAST majority of mma champions were inspired by Bruce Lee.  So there's that. 

Why do you say "Bruce Lee fans" as if he's a current fighter with a following?

If Bruce Lee were born in this era and trained MMA I think he would definitely be a champion.

Carson's Corner radio show -


Funny thread! Paging Sifu Ross...

In for seafood Ross to lose his shit

BaronessTitiVonTramp -

The video of Bruce Lee flailing at a punch bag and of him sparring were disappointing for a life long fan.

 

He is still the man, but he wasnt beating any real fighters

Link?

People think with their eyes?

WidespreadPanic -


BL's skills were thus:



1. Ability to do a 'quick kill' using eye attacks to set up a kill. He would not be allowed to use his 'x-rated' kill in three seconds methods in the cage/octagon/UFC arena. Therefore he would not have competed, could not be compelled to compete.



2. He had very, very low 'durability'. He was rather fragile, had poor eyesight, had one leg shorter than the other so had some structural problems. His 'chin' was untested. Therefore, unless there was a real REASON to fight in the ring/cage/octagon/ufc arena, such as to save the life of his child or to save his own life, he would not have competed. He would be in the same situation as a person needing to used 'deadly force', knowing that if convicted he'd be jailed.



3. He did not like to be touched. This is evidenced by comments made by Jesse Glover (private emails), James DeMile, and Dan Inosanto (published interviews). Thus he would not have 'come back better prepared if he lost in the UFC1, because he could not have handled this aversion to being touched to the point of learning BJJ or wrestling.



4. He had a severe ego problem. We talk about his philosophy and his desire to be in control of himself, but he could not have allowed himself to be 'submitted' by fellow students on the way to getting skill in BJJ, or wrestling (or any other range/venue). James DeMile talks about his temper when he accidentally clipped BL on the chin while sparing. DeMile says he had a firearm in his pocket and he was fearful that BL would kill him, such was his anger at being 'clipped' and he was moments away from feeling he'd have to shoot BL. Now, even IF this story is embellished, the point is, the ego and temper would have precluded BL from getting additional skill in fighting.



His real ability was to bring out the best in people, to show them the way to improve, yes partly by example. But he had his weaknesses and strengths and knew what those were and avoided the weaknesses. He would have made a pretty good coach if he chose to reveal some of his 'methods'. But Jesse Glover says that after he left Oakland he was worried about being beaten in a fight so he spent a lot of time HIDING his methods. He did not want the bigger, stronger americans to learn what he had done to achieve some of his abiity.



Some of his ability was similar to 'stage magic'.



Most of the fighting moves you see on screen are NOT what BL would have done in a real, full-on, to the death, bar fight, or alley fight where he had to protect a loved one or his own life. Almost all of what you see is STAGE FIGHING JKD.



He had an incredible stage presence that has rarely been equaled. We should respect him for that and not try to put him up for things or events he would not have participated in. You don't take a 'national treasure' like this and make him fight scrubs.



FWIW.

"Ability to do a 'quick kill' using eye attacks to set up a kill. He would not be allowed to use his 'x-rated' kill in three seconds methods in the cage/octagon/UFC arena."

 

Who did he kill? As far as I know the only death he was involved in was his own.

He was a brilliant person and martial artist. One of a kind even. But no point anyone dwelling on what he would have been able to do in the ufc. If it was around back then the competition would have been extremely green and now he would be like 80 years old.

Miguel cro cop - I'd rather listen to another 20 years of Mcnoobs than listen to 5 minutes of the bullshit they come out with. I had a Bruce Lee fan tell me with a serious face he'd beat Tyson and Ali in boxing.

I had two old fat guys at work laugh when I said Roberto Duran would knock him out. I feel your pain.

I have embarrassed both these idiots in arguments for the last couple years based on that bullshit. Also, Tony Danza would rape Bruce in an MMA fight.

^Let me add I was talking about Bruce Lee's existing skills at that time, not doing the pretend he was born in 1985 gimmick that I use for Jack Dempsey etc

Bruce Lee kicked off the concept of MMA with "using no way as way". Royce Gracie of UFC 1 would get wrecked today because of the principles that Bruce had already set in motion. The goal of any master is that his students will one day surpass him. I don't get the point of threads like these.

Bruce Lee is a religion for many people.

 

In reality, anyone who can scrap can beat the living piss out of Bruce Lee. If he gets punched in the face ONCE his entire reality will crumble and he will look like a fish out of water as he realizes he's not fighting a stick dummy

LiveWire - 
BaronessTitiVonTramp -

The video of Bruce Lee flailing at a punch bag and of him sparring were disappointing for a life long fan.

 

He is still the man, but he wasnt beating any real fighters

Link?


For his time he was philosophically well beyond most other martial art instructors who where stuck on tradition and fairy tales. Bruce Lee was incorporating weight training, PEDS, Western Boxing, Judo/Grappling, and Chinese Wing Chung into a pretty well rounded system (for that time).

Very few Karate guys were boxing, very few Wing Chung guys were grappling. So in his era, I think Bruce Lee was ahead of most. I think when you incorporate that with his freakish athleticism and high IQ, you could have a pretty good fighter in his era, and more specially, at that weight.

Unfortunately, we cant really go much further than that, any more than we could speculate what Aruther Ashe would do playing against Roger Federer, on today's surfaces, with today's training, using verses today's equipment. It is purely speculative.

However, I scoff at the notion of Bruce Lee beating really big skilled martial artist/fighters. You can only make up for so much. Perhaps Pacquio is a destoryer at his weight class, however, he would have no business fighting James Toney. However, I have no doubt that Lee could have walked into 75% of the martial arts schools that existed back in his day, and win fights, based on the diversity of his style, his ability to box, and his athletic ability.

WidespreadPanic -


BL's skills were thus:



1. Ability to do a 'quick kill' using eye attacks to set up a kill. He would not be allowed to use his 'x-rated' kill in three seconds methods in the cage/octagon/UFC arena. Therefore he would not have competed, could not be compelled to compete.



2. He had very, very low 'durability'. He was rather fragile, had poor eyesight, had one leg shorter than the other so had some structural problems. His 'chin' was untested. Therefore, unless there was a real REASON to fight in the ring/cage/octagon/ufc arena, such as to save the life of his child or to save his own life, he would not have competed. He would be in the same situation as a person needing to used 'deadly force', knowing that if convicted he'd be jailed.



3. He did not like to be touched. This is evidenced by comments made by Jesse Glover (private emails), James DeMile, and Dan Inosanto (published interviews). Thus he would not have 'come back better prepared if he lost in the UFC1, because he could not have handled this aversion to being touched to the point of learning BJJ or wrestling.



4. He had a severe ego problem. We talk about his philosophy and his desire to be in control of himself, but he could not have allowed himself to be 'submitted' by fellow students on the way to getting skill in BJJ, or wrestling (or any other range/venue). James DeMile talks about his temper when he accidentally clipped BL on the chin while sparing. DeMile says he had a firearm in his pocket and he was fearful that BL would kill him, such was his anger at being 'clipped' and he was moments away from feeling he'd have to shoot BL. Now, even IF this story is embellished, the point is, the ego and temper would have precluded BL from getting additional skill in fighting.



His real ability was to bring out the best in people, to show them the way to improve, yes partly by example. But he had his weaknesses and strengths and knew what those were and avoided the weaknesses. He would have made a pretty good coach if he chose to reveal some of his 'methods'. But Jesse Glover says that after he left Oakland he was worried about being beaten in a fight so he spent a lot of time HIDING his methods. He did not want the bigger, stronger americans to learn what he had done to achieve some of his abiity.



Some of his ability was similar to 'stage magic'.



Most of the fighting moves you see on screen are NOT what BL would have done in a real, full-on, to the death, bar fight, or alley fight where he had to protect a loved one or his own life. Almost all of what you see is STAGE FIGHING JKD.



He had an incredible stage presence that has rarely been equaled. We should respect him for that and not try to put him up for things or events he would not have participated in. You don't take a 'national treasure' like this and make him fight scrubs.



FWIW.

 

This post says it all best. I'll add:

Fighting: He obviously had good stand up ideas regarding the southpaw stance, right lead/left straight, feinting to draw, stop hit/interception and oblique kick -  fighters good at those methods today cause a lot of problems for opponents (A.Silva/Machida/Jones)

But I doubt he had great timing to apply those methods against pros without heavy continued sparring.  Against other Chinese classical martial artists though he would have likely destroyed them.

Fragility: he had a permanent back injury that caused him a lot of problems.

 

Its a testament to his impact that 50yrs later he still appeals to such a broad worldwide range of people. Many of those YouTube comments won't even be from martial artists.

If bruce was in ufc1 , he would have won

Who did he actually fight back then?. Ali, mas oyama, rickson, Every art has their own prodigy, he could of showed the world he was legit instead of saying he was. He was nothing more than a movie star who loved to train multiple styles of martial arts.

He was a great philosopher and student of martial arts, but a lot of his views were antiquated and he was tiny. He also didnt truly spar or compete consistently.

Bruce is an icon and a great view into the mind of someone who broke out of the TMA mindset at the height of its popularity. I think we can all learn a lot from reading his Tao of Jeet Kun Do, but by no means was he touching a modern ufc fighter.

Jack Carter -
LiveWire - 
BaronessTitiVonTramp -

The video of Bruce Lee flailing at a punch bag and of him sparring were disappointing for a life long fan.

 

He is still the man, but he wasnt beating any real fighters

Link?


Its from around 66/67 when he was transitioning to boxing/kickboxing from Wing Chun.

He was a right handed trying to teach himself southpaw boxing. Doubtful he looked like that 5yrs later in 73.

It was filmed so Lee could record and review his own progress, not as a final finished form to be presented 40yrs later.

I posted about Bruce being overrated as a FIGHTER, year's ago on here and got lambasted!

Here is the proof that he was never a complete fighter:

Judo Gene Lebell easily beat him - he just ducked behind him and choked him out. Bruce could do nothing and had to give up.
Was he an incredibly talented man? Yes? Did he push for change? Yes. But no evidence that he would have been anything but an average fighter.

Let's look at this way. During and before Bruce's time, there was already a 60 tradition of carnival/ring fighting using striking and grappling. All those guys would have destroyed him.
He could have easily flown to Thailand and fought some Muay Thaiers. But of course, he would have been destroyed.

What he was good for was to make traditional Chinese martial art practitioners realize that change is necessary to become better.
That's about it.