Burning in Hades

I'm sorry guys, but this expression has to be metaphorical.

"Burning" is what we call a chemical reaction called combustion, with "fire" being the medium in which combustion occurs, throwing off visible light. Combustion requires fuel. Combustion requires oxygen (which is why a flame goes out when you close a container.

"Burning for all eternity" would, therefore, require infinite fuel which a human body does not have. Furthermore, in Christ's depiction of hell, he notes a person talking contritely and with sorrow and anguish. Let me tell you something, if I tie you to a stake and set off a blaze, the only conversation coming out of you are howls of ear-splitting agony...not a philosophical chat about your wrongdoings.

What do you think of universalims as present on attn: OG traditional Christians.

You'd be suprised at how many follow it....

Also! I believe you are referring to something which is a parable - The Rich Man and Lazarus. I don't believe it to be talking about the afterlife at all. You'll notice it doesn't refer to whether the rich man or lazarus are believers/ whether they are righteous - which are the usual proponents of salvation, merely to their financial position.

I actually believe it to be talking about the blessing that will be passed on from the Jews to the Gentiles.

http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/richman.htm

Interesting. Thanks, Siamang. I'll look into it. I'll be busy for a few hours first though.

Rastus is looking for hair on eggs.

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On the surface this thread may appear to be kind of humorless and picky...but reality is often that.

Maybe this chapter from a book on Orthodox views of life after death will bring some ideas to the table.  It specifically deals with the parable.

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b24.en.life_after_death.01.htm


1. The parable of the rich Man and Lazarus





"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.


The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. In hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus in his bosom. So he called to him, Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire'. </FONT></P>
<P align=justify><FONT color=#0000d7>But Abraham replied,
Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us'.


He answered, Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment'. Abraham replied,They have Moses and the prophets; let them listen to them'.


No, father Abraham', he said,but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent'. He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead'".


(Luke 16, 19-31)


 

As we see, the parable is not about life after the Second Coming of Christ, but about the life of the soul between a person's death, when his soul leaves his body, and the Second Coming of Christ. This interval is called the intermediate state of souls. Other words spoken by Christ refer to His Second Coming, when He will come to judge men. Before that, bodily resurrection will take place, when the souls will enter their bodies again, and a person can enjoy the things that he did in his lifetime.

 While Lazarus was in Abraham's bosom, the Rich Man was burning in hades. Indeed he would ask Abraham to send Lazarus to cool his tongue, because, as he expressed himself, "I am tormented in this flame".

Here hades, not Hell, is being referred to. For Hell will begin after the Second Coming of Christ and the future judgement, while the souls of sinners experience hades after their departure from the body. According to the teaching of the holy Fathers, hades is an intelligible place, it is the foretaste of Hell, when a person receives the caustic energy of God.

There was a great discussion about these matters at the Council of Ferrara-Florence, and the views of Mark Eugenicus, which were revealing, have been preserved. The fire in which the Rich Man was burning was not what the Latins called the purifying fire, or `purgatory' that all people's souls pass through. It was not a created fire, but uncreated. That is to say, even sinners receive the rays of divine Light, but since they die unrepentant, without being cured, they experience the burning energy of the Light. Thus, according to the degree of their cure or illness, people receive the same grace either as light or as fire.

It should also be observed that the Rich Man saw Abraham with Lazarus in his bosom. He saw the glory of Abraham, but he had no share in this glory. By contrast, Lazarus both saw it and participated in it. This is a very significant point, for it shows that in that other life everyone will see God, but the righteous will have communion, participation, while the sinners will not. A characteristic example is what Christ said about the coming judgement. All will see the Judge, all will converse with Him, but some will enjoy His glory and others will experience the caustic energy of divine grace.

I'll get to this later, tonight, Ridgeback. Thanks for posting it. I look forward to reading it.

I'm sorry guys, but this expression has to be metaphorical.

don't be sorry I agree with you...and so did John Calvin.

Here we have it, John Calvin the founder of do what you want because it doesn't matter.

So John Calvin thought that all of this which is like half the verses I can post are all not really eternal as in forever.

Psalm 92:7 Although the wicked flourish like weeds, and evildoers blossom with success, there is only eternal destruction ahead of them.

Psalm 119:142 Your justice is eternal, and your law is perfectly true.

Matthew 25:46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.

Mark 3:29 but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. It is an eternal sin.

Romans 5:10 For since we were restored to friendship with God by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be delivered from eternal punishment by his life.

Philippians 3:19 Their future is eternal destruction. Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and all they think about is this life here on earth.

Jude 1:7 And don't forget the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with sexual immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and are a warning of the eternal fire that will punish all who are evil.

Revelation 17:8 ) The beast you saw was alive but isn't now. And yet he will soon come up out of the bottomless pit and go to eternal destruction. And the people who belong to this world, whose names were not written in the Book of Life from before the world began, will be amazed at the reappearance of this beast who had died.

Some people need to eat the seeds of the Word along with the fruit.

"Here we have it, John Calvin the founder of Hot tube Christianity. The founder of do what you want because it doesn't matter. "

I have never heard Calvin or Calvinism described like that before...in fact, most I have known or read seem to be fairly strict.

Regarding the concept of Hell as a place of fire, it's important to remember that the NT can be a bit confusing about this, largely do to translation difficulties-- note that I say difficulties, not errors.

In our english language texts we use the single word "hell" when the Greek language texts of the NT often use two: "Hades" and "Gehenna" .

Both of those are very different concepts. Gehenna was a place in Israel (it still is a place in Israel) where bodies of criminals were disposed, usually by cremating them, which is why people often associate hell with fire, or why Gehenna was used as a metaphor for what hell is like. Does that mean it is literally fire? Who knows. It was used to describe a place of suffering and death. Hades, which isn't used in the same sense as greek mythology, generally means "unseen", those who are out of god's light...which I assume is painful for the soul.

Even when people believe in literal flames I didn't think they believed that they were fire in the material sense of combustion like we have on the earth.  I figured it was always understood in a spiritual sense. 

NO AARON, JOHN CALVIN... A ULTRA FUNDAMENTALIST...DID NOT BELIEVE THE FIRE WAS A LITERAL FIRE...HE MOST CERTAINLY BELIEVED HELL WAS FOREVER.

Burn in hell                                    Twisted Sister

Welcome to the abandoned land
Come on in child, take my hand
Here there's no work or play
Only one bill to pay
There's just five words to say
As you go down, down, down

You're gonna burn in hell
Oh, burn in hell

You can't believe all the things I've done wrong in my life
Without even trying I've lived on the edge of a knife
Well, I've played with fire, but I don't want to get myself burned
To thine own self be true, so I think that it's time for a turn

Before I burn in hell
Oh, burn in hell

Take a good look in your heart, tell me what do you see?
It's black and it's dark, now is that how you want it to be?
It's up to you, what you do will decide your own fate
Make your choice now for tomorrow may be far too late

And then you'll burn in hell
Hear no evil, don't you
See no evil, don't you
Lay no evil down on me
You're gonna burn in hell
Speak no evil, don't you
Think no evil, don't you
Play with evil, 'cause I'm free

You're gonna burn in hell

Now, you may return to your conversation.

 

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Hell is real and straight out of the Bible.

On a side note John Calvin was a heretic. The doctrine of predestination and perserverence of the saints are both doctrines of demons. The man was a pope wannabe who realied on Augustine and Greek philosophy instead of the bible for his doctrine. He also persecuted and killed Christians who disagreed with him.

sure John Calvin was a heretic...so was Martin Luther...so were all the reformers.The Catholic church branded them all as heretics..and guess what..."some" Catholics today view..you..me..rev,Aaron,etc. as heretics.

The doctrine of predestination and perserverence of the saints are both doctrines of demons. The man was a pope wannabe who realied on Augustine and Greek philosophy instead of the bible for his doctrine. He also persecuted and killed Christians who disagreed with him.

sources please?

now I by no means am a supporter of  John Calvin. Nor am I one of his theological followers...but I'd be interested in seeing your sources.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/ashes.htm

This article is pretty good. My real source was "What love is this?" it is a book by Dave Hunt. But this article is a good summary.