Can Brock keep Reem down?

If Brock gets Overeem down, can he control him there?

The only way I see Brock winning is if he can take Reem down and control him.

Overeem has some good TDD, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking he's going to stuff Brock (or, more likely, counter) every time if he gets multiple shots. Sooner or later, unless Reem tags him clean, it's going to go down.

Can Brock tie up Overeem like he did Mir? Will Reem gas like Carwin and get sub'd? Or will Reem outclass Brock on the ground?

I think we can easily say if this fight stays on the feet then it's all Overeem. If you disagree with that, discuss that too I guess. But you're dumb. ;)

ttt, just in case this got lost in the mess of threads. if not.. i shall let it die

Reems ground game is reaaly good only not reaaly shown nor needed yet in his last fights Phone Post

Maybe not at first, but Overeem isn't exactly known to be a cardio machine. He might be able to escape or get a restart in round 1, but how about round 2 or potentially 3? I don't think so.
Overeem's either going to take him out early or he's going to end up like Mir or Carwin in round 2.

 probably but i hope not

Yes, easily. And I don't even like Brock Phone Post

Domingo - Maybe not at first, but Overeem isn't exactly known to be a cardio machine. He might be able to escape or get a restart in round 1, but how about round 2 or potentially 3? I don't think so.
Overeem's either going to take him out early or he's going to end up like Mir or Carwin in round 2.



This....Or else Reem connects with a big time KNEE

I said he'd either take him out quickly or get beat down. A knee is pretty much his signature shot...so yes :)
That said, I think that if he doesn't land that knee in the first round he won't land it at all. Overeem has a few finishes past the first round, but against good competition he tends to either cruise to a decision or lose once the fight leaves round 1.

Overeem should be the favorite. He's been more active, and has way more experience.

I think he'll TKO Brock in round 1.

 Overeem's only shot at winning is to keep it standing, once it hits the ground its over

Domingo - Maybe not at first, but Overeem isn't exactly known to be a cardio machine. He might be able to escape or get a restart in round 1, but how about round 2 or potentially 3? I don't think so.
Overeem's either going to take him out early or he's going to end up like Mir or Carwin in round 2.


The issue here is that Brock didn't exactly look like a cardio machine in his last fight either. Couple that with his recent surgery and long layoff and I think we're just as likely to see Lesnar gas out as anybody.

Alistair is very different from Mir and Carwin. He's physically a lot more powerful than Mir was when he fought Brock and it's difficult to see him get bullied and physically overwhelmed the way Frank did at UFC 100. He's also a lot more patient and experienced than Shane Carwin. He's probably not going to go crazy and over extend himself the way Shane did in his fight with Brock.

Remember, Alistair has nearly 50 mma fights and 14 kickboxing fights. That's a lot of experience. Shane only had 12 fights coming into the Lesnar fight. Alistair learned the hard way the importance of staying calm and relaxed in the ring. If you've watched him over the last few years, his confidence and patience in the ring is one of the biggest differences from the early part of his career.

It's going to be fun, but I personally see Alistair taking Brock out before the end of the first round. I think his defensive grappling is going to surprise some people in this fight.

RedVexx - Overeem via guillotine.


 Not much talk has been made of the 'Reemertine™... this could be the decider if Brock gets him down.

Darup -  Overeem's only shot at winning is to keep it standing, once it hits the ground its over


Why do so many fans take the view that Alistair is some sort of turtle on the ground? You do realize that he has 19 submission victories to his credit? Alistair is a very underrated grappler, and as I said in my previous post, I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by his defensive grappling here.

In addition, Brock's really only taken down and pounded out 1 opponent. Frank Mir, that's it. He's dangerous on top for sure, but the idea that Brock takes you down and it's over from there hasn't played out in his actual fights.

Brock via GnP, Reem is too scared to strike all out against good grapplers Phone Post

One of the interesting things about this fight is that there is going to be such diverse opinions. Both sides seem to feel that their fighter destroys the other. Nobody is really predicting a close, back and forth contest. The consensus seems to be that somebody is getting dominated.

@nhbguy

"Why do so many fans take the view that Alistair is some sort of turtle on the ground? You do realize that he has 19 submission victories to his credit? Alistair is a very underrated grappler, and as I said in my previous post, I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by his defensive grappling here."


This is why I in the OP I was careful to say "control" him on the ground. I don't assume just because Brock gets it there he's going to maul Overeem.

As you had touched on in your previous post, cardio could be just as much of a factor for both guys so it's hard to make any assumptions based on that. Overeems seems to be improving, Brocks seems to be declining.. but they still seem to be about level currently.


"One of the interesting things about this fight is that there is going to be such diverse opinions. Both sides seem to feel that their fighter destroys the other. Nobody is really predicting a close, back and forth contest. The consensus seems to be that somebody is getting dominated."

I think it's really interesting too. I'm an Overeem fan, and fairly neutral towards Brock (although I had a bit of satisfaction telling everyone he would lose the first fight with Mir, and being right) but I really don't know who to pick in this fight.

It's easy to assume that Overeem will overwhelm Brock with strikes like Cain did, but I don't think there is any way to compare Overeem and Cain's take down defense although you would have to assume Cain's is a lot better.


FRAT notes.

I'M FACKIN STOKED

 I recall Overeem quitting from Arona punches....if Brock gets him down I don't think he can do anything from the bottom except get smashed.  If he lands standing early it could set the tone the other way though.  Tough fight to predict.

EnderTL - @nhbguy

"Why do so many fans take the view that Alistair is some sort of turtle on the ground? You do realize that he has 19 submission victories to his credit? Alistair is a very underrated grappler, and as I said in my previous post, I think a lot of folks are going to be surprised by his defensive grappling here."


This is why I in the OP I was careful to say "control" him on the ground. I don't assume just because Brock gets it there he's going to maul Overeem.

As you had touched on in your previous post, cardio could be just as much of a factor for both guys so it's hard to make any assumptions based on that. Overeems seems to be improving, Brocks seems to be declining.. but they still seem to be about level currently.


"One of the interesting things about this fight is that there is going to be such diverse opinions. Both sides seem to feel that their fighter destroys the other. Nobody is really predicting a close, back and forth contest. The consensus seems to be that somebody is getting dominated."

I think it's really interesting too. I'm an Overeem fan, and fairly neutral towards Brock (although I had a bit of satisfaction telling everyone he would lose the first fight with Mir, and being right) but I really don't know who to pick in this fight.

It's easy to assume that Overeem will overwhelm Brock with strikes like Cain did, but I don't think there is any way to compare Overeem and Cain's take down defense although you would have to assume Cain's is a lot better.


FRAT notes.

I'M FACKIN STOKED


Good post, I agree with just about everything you said there. I too am an Overeem fan and I do think that he's going to be too much for Brock in this fight, but I can admit there are a number of unknown factors in this fight, which is what makes it so intriguing.

While I do think that Alistair has solid take down defense, we've never really seen him in with a wrestler of Brock's pedigree and size.

How will his cardio hold up trying to push a man of Brock's size and strength around?

Can he work his way back to his feet if Brock does get on top of him?

Again, I'm of the opinion that he can handle anything that Brock brings to the table, but we won't know for sure until December 30th. Really excited for this fight.

overeem has a good ground game. also if brock just runs in and shoots for a double, i expect reem to rip his head off with his uberguillotine.

He's been KO'd from guard before and Brock has plenty of art and power to keep him down and hurt him.