"...No rule should be specifically applied to favor one style over the other IMO."

i agree again, but like i said, there are many rules that do favor striking. quicker standups due to "inactive" ground is one of them. very subjective and usually favors the striker in most cases. curran vs yoshida is a good example of that. jeff has a great guard and it took a lot for baret to pass, but because he wasn't "peppering" jeff in the process, they get stood up immediately after the pass. if someone is mounted and can hold a fighter in place, stalling long enough, they're stood up. all of these stand-ups, but if fighters are inactive on their feet, it's not started on the ground. so by agreeing w/ you, i disagree.

"Can you continue to hit the guy? Or only keep the submission on?..."

kop, i'd say hammerfisting after the "sub-on" has been called is fine as it's a legit escape. the round basically won't end until one the three critieria i mentioned above is met. the time limit would stay in place for everything else except can not save the fighter if caught deep in a sub.

"If you stop a fight while a guy is landing a flurry of strikes, then it needs to be stopped when a guy is trying to finish a sub."

i really don't disagree w/ your logic here, but it's just more difficult imo to determine how "in trouble" the fighter is when it comes to strikes from the mount. two different games.

"This whole "ground skills are more refined," and "securing or escaping submissions is a higher skill level" stuff is bogus, pompous, and arrogant.

If laying somebody out with strikes was easy, everybody would be doing it. "

this is going to sound arrogant again, but the reason everybody is not doing it has something to do w/ ground defensive skills and improved ground games imo.

"If a potential rule would cause more issues then it would fix... It should not be implemented.

Many people have pointed out enough flaws to show the rule would hurt the sport more then anything else. "

many people have expressed their opinions and theories (including me) on whether this is good or bad, but truly, unless it's tested, there is no way to determine no?

"Just admit defeat and move on."

kop, what's w/ the "defeat" thing? i'm not trying to battle you. just trying to discuss and cover all points before putting it to rest. i know you've rattled off some opinions that i appreciate reading, but just because a few people gave their opinions, doesn't mean that the rule is bad. i'm hoping someone will come up w/ the missing link to implement or modify for a better game. there have been a few "pro" comments--although very short.

you sir, should not treat this as a troll.

"...Royce Gracie has Matt Hughes in a triangle choke. The time runs out. Hughes punches Gracie in the head and KO's him."

i'd say that that was an escape/win no?

"If you allow Hughes to win by this method... Then by default you have to allow striking to continue after the bell until a lull."

yes, i'd like to see that, but no, this would be too subjective to implement.

"Or what about with a footlock. What if Hughes has Gracie in a footlock. He never lets go, but at the same time Gracie taps him out with a foot lock of his own. What happens then."

another example of an escape/win.

btw kop, you're not being very tame at all. :)

now you're confusing me bro.

yes? but i know where you're headed on that, and i'm hoping that it wouldn't be opening too big of a can of worms.

i'm just running ideas by guys like yourself who think mma man. not like i can just talk to anybody off the street or in a sports bar about this kinda stuff man.

thanks man, can i have my head back now?

glad to have your opinions on this. wouldn't want to blinded experiment w/ something and get tomatos (or pineapples in hawaii) thrown at you at the end of the fight.

*takes spam gladly, fries and eats w/ rice and kim chee

Also, how much extra time would you give for the sub to be completed?

You have all seen guys who can just sit in a locked on triangle or sleeper and chill there, it could be a LONG time before anybody is finished or escapes.

If you do decide to eventaully break it and end the round the guy applying the hold could be protesting "I almost had it, another 30 seconds" etc etc.

Nice idea, but I think in sport fighting, the time limit and being saved by the bell has becme an integral part.

opash, you maybe correct, but i'd like to see it experimented w/ to see if those actual problems arise.

sub should be allowed to the finish or other two criteria.

Sounds interesting. You should give it a trial run for a couple of shows. I like it. The striker always has advantage of stalling on the ground and to get the match back up to the feet. There is no instance where you go from your feet to the ground unless it's something the fighters do. It could add a little twist to the MMA game.

yay wu!

Damn YOU Jacktripper.... You beat me to it!!!

SCREECH by waterbottle.....

I'm obviously biased because I'm a grappler. :P

yf, i don't think that will happen, but i like it.

lol fokai... i actually saw screech whip the snot out of horseshack from welcome back cotter

it was surreal... screechs standup was tight

FCTV808, this sounds like it could be a bit related to the "catch" rule in Shooto. The problem is that it's not every day that you have Shooto-quality referees who are able to make a determination like that.

On another note, one of my jiu-jitsu buddies is moving to Hawai'i. We practice at a very friendly gym in Tokyo, where everybody gets along, there are no barbarians, and people politely point out each other's mistakes, etc. Any chance he can find an environment like that on Oahu? He's currently leaning towards Relson's.

yah, we talked about the "catch" in shooto, but although a little similar, mostly different as it's not a scoring mechanism--or maybe it should be? anyway, glad for your input on this.

tell you friend that depending where he live on oahu, i can recommend a bunch of cool places to roll.

I guess what I meant was that, in the cases of both a "catch" and a "sub on," the referee would have to be knowledgeable and experienced enough to know when the technique is "in." Shooto's referees are trained to spot these situations and on the whole do a pretty good job, but kickboxing and boxing referees will need to be educated a good deal. In fact, some of the Hero's referees who also work in K-1 matches are quite bad at identifying when a choke or submission is locked on.

My buddy is rich. So he is thinking Ala Moana/Ward area or Kahala. (I told him that he can't possibly be that rich.) At any rate, he will probably end up somewhere in town and I wouldn't expect him to live out any further than like Nuuanu on one side and Hawaii Kai on the other.