Carlos or Helio

LOL yea, you heard the same bs story from the only sales people in the country -

say something enough an t becomes true -

micheal jackson is the king of pop music

LOL! carlos was such a driving force in jiu-jitsu that history forgot him. the only people that consider carlos the pioneer are his children and their children. brasil holds helio as a national treasure, not carlos.

like i asked earlier. who were the challenge matches that carlos fought? you said he was a fighter. but, never was he considered the family champion.

Sreiter has rewritten the history book on the correct. Congrats on the brown btw. If you don't mind, keep on with this as I always thought the whole Helio came up with everything and learned from only watching theory was bs. Not that he never created/made stuff more efficient, but I always thought both Carlos and the other brothers also had a great influence on the early creation of the art. Any stories about the other brothers that are not known (as its funny Rorian omits all of his uncles when recounting the earlier history of things, not coincidental IMO)? THIS is the stuff that SHOULD have been in the Gracie Way. Stories about the earlier foundations of the art delving into the history of the brothers.

'brasil holds helio as a national treasure, not carlos'

LMFAO Since when?

See that's another thing. By all accounts bjj is not that big of a sport in Brazil and when everyday Brazilians have heard of the sport they usually associate bjjers with being thugs and criminals. I believe that the importance of bjj in Brazil has been greatly exxagerated and that it isn't even the biggest martial art let alone sport. TKD and Capoeira (sp) are much bigger.

Ridgeback is the correct.

true, the brazilians I have talked to in college know jack shit about the gracies or bjj. Seems like great marketing job was accomplished to us americans, imo.

sreiter ,thats true ,but mike is the king of pop just ask him.

weird Hunter. at ohio university we have an exchange MBA program with a school down in brasil. they all know of the gracies and even the girls said that they are one of brasil's most famous families. she called them "their kennedy".

a lot of people that cant trace their lineage to humaita have strong hatred towards the helio line. i am used to hearing it.

I've known 5 different brazilians at University, two of them knew of the Gracies, one was a blue belt somewhere... the other thought BJJ was 'criminal wrestling'...

The others had no idea, though I was talking about Capoeira...

If Helio was a National Treasure....

like i asked earlier. who were the challenge matches that carlos fought? you said he was a fighter. but, never was he considered the family champion.

Dude - stop listening to fairie tales and do research - alot is on the net -

Carlos was the family champ for a long time - the famous flyers posted all over rio stating

"If you want to get your face beaten and well smashed, your ___ kicked, and your arms broken, Contact Carlos Gracie at this address..."

-- Brazilian newspaper ad, circa 1920s

Once Carlos was confident that helio cold take the reins, he decided he wanted to pursue other bussiness interests and nutrition (his real passion) - he allow helio to be the head instructor, although he maintained control - like helio was president of the company, but Carlos was CEO and chairman of the board, having final say on family and gjj matters -

Carlos became a manger of helio - EXACTLY like Rorion became Royces manager. Everything Rorion did, step for step, he copied from Carlos

It is all marketing and nothing else -

Just like, there a only a VERY FEW people who know of BJJ existing outside the gracie realm -

Maeda didnt only teach Carlos - he had many students BEFORE CARLOS - as a matter of fact, Maeda went to euorpe for a few years, and Carlos studied under Maeda's top guy (in charge of running the scholl while he was away)

Ronaldo JACARE' gets his skill from this liniage and NOT ANYONE CONNECTED TO THE GRACIES IN ANYWAY -

A good example of this is Mehdi, a Judo master who came to Brazil from France in 1949, and still teaches there now. There have been Judo schools in Brazil since the early 1900's and Sao Paulo still has a very large Japanese population. Mehdi's list of students include Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belts Mario Sperry, Rickson Gracie, and Sylvio Behring, just to name a few.

This is another example of Judo's influence on Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and that Helio Gracie did not invent it. The Gracie family developed the art of Judo into a more effective rules-free style. While in Brazil, I learned about a Grand Master named "Fadda," who learned Jiu-Jitsu from a man named Luis Franca. Like Carlos Gracie, Franca also learned Jiu-Jitsu (Judo) from Meada. Fadda took the Jiu-Jitsu he learned from Franca and started his own school of Jiu-Jitsu in Brazil. His popularity is not as great as the Gracie family, but nonetheless, he is an example of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu being refined and practiced outside the Gracie family.
His students compete in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu tournaments and consider their art separate from both Gracie Jiu-Jitsu and the older styles of Jiu-Jitsu in Japan.

Carlos was the only BB under maeda - Carlos gave BB's to his brother

Sreiter spitting truth.

btw -

thanks hunter

LOL!!! YOU ARE 100% WRONG!!!

THE ORIGINAL GRACIE SCHOOL HAD NO BLACK BELTS. INSTRUCTORS WORE DARK BLUE. STUDENTS WORE LIGHT BLUE. MAEDA NEVER GAVE OUT A BLACK BELT. HELIO FOUGHT KIMURA WEARING HIS BLUE BELT. IF YOU ARE WRONG ON SUCH A SMALL AND PROVEN ASPECT OF GJJ HISTORY, WHY WOULD YOU BE RIGHT ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE!!

"micheal jackson is the king of pop music"

But he is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

LOL

YOU"RE WRONG - I GOT THIS DIRECTLY FROM CARLOS GRACIE JR.

In the video clip, helio's belt appears the same color as kimura's black

show proof of dark and light blue belts - or is that something you pulled outta your ass too?

I am confused

Carlos, he and a bunch of others (Not Gracies) trained with Maeda. Alot of the other students went on to open schools of their own, but we really haven't heard too much about them , except for Fadda who passed away recently. What is interesting was Maeda actually was teaching in the US way before he went to Brazil.

"In the video clip, helio's belt appears the same color as kimura's black"

--are you talking about the black and white fight footage? if so, how could you tell if the belt was dark blue or black.

helio wears the same blue belt that he fought kimura in when he trains. he trains in a blue belt, takes photos in the red. fredson alves sent up a picture of helio holding his first child and helio was wearing the blue. we all that that was pretty cool.

i thought the history of the belts was common knowledge. i guess not. if i post the source you are only going to call it "helio propaganda" so why should i waste my time. you come from a carlos lineage and i come from helio's. we just have a different perspective. congrats on your brown and good luck to you in your future training.

The history of the belts and the sources for the informations is described in the article called Corpo Quatro in the Global Training Report site.

www.geocities.com/global_training_report/corpo_quatro