Children "Tried as an Adult" ??

This concept makes zero sense to me.

I can understand the court considering someone like Nik Cruz to be an adult if he's 17 when the trial takes place. I cannot understand it when actual children are on trial.

The "Slenderman Stabbings" are a great example. Two 12 year old girls mixed up in a ridiculous little kid fantasy, set their 12 yo friend up and stabbed her - but not fatally.

The girl who did the stabbing got 40 years. The one who watched got 25 years. These were 12 year olds and nobody died.

What the fuck is the point of the juvenile system if the court can just arbitrarily decide that pre-teens are actually adults?

I think the idea isvthat some crimes are so heneous that the juvenile justice system is not equipped to deal with them. Some kids make adult decisions.  I can understand that. If you're 15 and you plot a murder, that's big boy shit with lifelong consequences.  

Because if you don't, shit like this happens:

The case and the juvenile are presented to the judge, who determines whether the situation merits putting the juvenile into the adult system.

There has to be probable cause that the juvenile committed the crime, of course, and this is rarely where the certification hearing is contested.

As part of the hearing, a somewhat comprehensive background report will have been compiled for the court to review. It consists of a social history of the juvenile, the criminal history of the juvenile, IQ test, etc., etc.

The judge also has to bear in mind what the juvenile punishment potential is for the offense. About 15 years ago or maybe more, in Texas the range of punishment for certain felony offenses was expanded to include "determinate" sentences, should a grand jury approve of the state seeking a determinate sentence. For example, if juvy picks up an aggravated robbery, the prosecutor can get approval for a determinate sentence. If the grand jury approves, the range of punishment for that offense goes up to potentially 40 years in prison.

If the prosecutor seeks certification for that juvy to be tried as an adult, the judge has to decide whether the potential punishment though the juvenile court is adequate. In that example, 40 years in prison is the max potential for that offense in juvy, and 99 years in prison is the max potential for an adult convicted of that offense.

I know of one juvenile who was sent to juvy prison for committing a murder and then paroled out of the juvy prison and committed a capital murder while still a juvy. He paroled out and then murdered two people when he was 16 years of age.

So, what do you do? Do you treat this person as a juvenile or do you try to get him to the adult system, where he can be taken off the streets for as long as a 99 year sentence?

Onikage - This concept makes zero sense to me.

I can understand the court considering someone like Nik Cruz to be an adult if he's 17 when the trial takes place. I cannot understand it when actual children are on trial.

The "Slenderman Stabbings" are a great example. Two 12 year old girls mixed up in a ridiculous little kid fantasy, set their 12 yo friend up and stabbed her - but not fatally.

The girl who did the stabbing got 40 years. The one who watched got 25 years. These were 12 year olds and nobody died.

What the fuck is the point of the juvenile system if the court can just arbitrarily decide that pre-teens are actually adults?

Because they are broken and need to be removed from society.  12 year olds know that killing is bad,  it's not like the was a accident or the result of something they didn't realize would happen,  they actively set out to murder one of their friends .  You don't fix that,  imo both of those girls should be locked up in a mental facility for the rest of their lives. 

Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   

Move to Europe you bleeding heart faggot

Donkey Hotee - 
sewich -
Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   

a predictable simplistic answer to a question that was never asked.  there is enough research on brain development to tell you all you need to know, if you're interested.


The current research that is being taught to people who work in the juvenile justice system is that the male brain doesn't fully mature until age 25. Make of that what you will.

sewich - 
Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   


Do you not see how ass backwards it is to give a 12 year old girl 40 years for non-fatal violent crime?

Our legal system is set up based around the idea that kids are incapable of making rational decisions. Under our system, a 16 year old is incapable of making an informed decision about having sex with a 17 year old in many states.

You can't have it both ways. This is a complete lack of understanding regarding child development.

MMA Playwright - 
Donkey Hotee - 
sewich -
Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   

a predictable simplistic answer to a question that was never asked.  there is enough research on brain development to tell you all you need to know, if you're interested.


The current research that is being taught to people who work in the juvenile justice system is that the male brain doesn't fully mature until age 25. Make of that what you will.

You don't have to have a fully mature brain to understand that murder is evil and to forfeit the rest of your life if you do it.

Sandy Pantz - 
MMA Playwright - 
Donkey Hotee - 
sewich -
Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   

a predictable simplistic answer to a question that was never asked.  there is enough research on brain development to tell you all you need to know, if you're interested.


The current research that is being taught to people who work in the juvenile justice system is that the male brain doesn't fully mature until age 25. Make of that what you will.

You don't have to have a fully mature brain to understand that murder is evil and to forfeit the rest of your life if you do it.

You're surely mistaken about kids understanding the consequences.

Many outcast high school kids kill themselves because they don't even understand that high school isn't forever.

Some kids are rational on an adult level, but that isn't standard. Think of all the dipshit adults you know, then subtract all their life experience - that's most teenagers.

The types of kids whose fantasies involve stabbing their friends or murdering people need to be segregated from society in one way or another. The current system isn't perfect but it's basically a tacit acknowledgment of the problem. 18 isn't a magic number so people are "juvenile" mentally until almost mid 20s...just when violent crimes committed begin to tick down.

sewich - 
Onikage - This concept makes zero sense to me.

I can understand the court considering someone like Nik Cruz to be an adult if he's 17 when the trial takes place. I cannot understand it when actual children are on trial.

The "Slenderman Stabbings" are a great example. Two 12 year old girls mixed up in a ridiculous little kid fantasy, set their 12 yo friend up and stabbed her - but not fatally.

The girl who did the stabbing got 40 years. The one who watched got 25 years. These were 12 year olds and nobody died.

What the fuck is the point of the juvenile system if the court can just arbitrarily decide that pre-teens are actually adults?

Because they are broken and need to be removed from society.  12 year olds know that killing is bad,  it's not like the was a accident or the result of something they didn't realize would happen,  they actively set out to murder one of their friends .  You don't fix that,  imo both of those girls should be locked up in a mental facility for the rest of their lives. 


My thoughts as well. When I was 12 I knew what the fuck was up and so did my friends. If we did something bad we knew that there were consequences if we got caught. Some of my friends ended up in prison for long stretches and they were all bad motherfuckers and menaces to society.

Donkey Hotee - 
Sandy Pantz -
MMA Playwright - 
Donkey Hotee - 
sewich -
Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   

a predictable simplistic answer to a question that was never asked.  there is enough research on brain development to tell you all you need to know, if you're interested.


The current research that is being taught to people who work in the juvenile justice system is that the male brain doesn't fully mature until age 25. Make of that what you will.

You don't have to have a fully mature brain to understand that murder is evil and to forfeit the rest of your life if you do it.

well, that is certainly something that you've typed. when taken against the mountains of research to the contrary it doesnt amount to much though. 


There is zero evidence that before don't understand murder is evil before 25.

before=people

Onikage - 
Sandy Pantz - 
MMA Playwright - 
Donkey Hotee - 
sewich -
Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   

a predictable simplistic answer to a question that was never asked.  there is enough research on brain development to tell you all you need to know, if you're interested.


The current research that is being taught to people who work in the juvenile justice system is that the male brain doesn't fully mature until age 25. Make of that what you will.

You don't have to have a fully mature brain to understand that murder is evil and to forfeit the rest of your life if you do it.

You're surely mistaken about kids understanding the consequences.

Many outcast high school kids kill themselves because they don't even understand that high school isn't forever.

Some kids are rational on an adult level, but that isn't standard. Think of all the dipshit adults you know, then subtract all their life experience - that's most teenagers.

Sorry, but Middle Schoolers do understand that murder is forever

If you guys genuinely believe that the brain not fully forming until 25 translates to "kids can't be held responsible for murder" than we can't give anyone under 25 any adult rights. No drinking, smoking, marriage, sex consent, right to have their own children, right to vote, right to own property, sex changes, right to drive, anything.

Slenderman stabbing is a really bad example for OP to use, since the two minors are serving their respective sentences in a mental hospital; not prison. 


This is a case where being tried as adults resulted in both getting long-term mental health care their own doctors declared they needed.

 

Before both plead guilty, their own attorneys, along with a number of doctors and mental health experts, had argued that the girls suffered from severe schizophrenia (along with a host of other major psychotic issues) and required long-term inpatient treatment and care.

 

So prosecutors agreed NOT to pursue prison for either girl. Their families and their attorneys got exactly what they wanted here, which was for the girls to receive long-term mental health treatment, at the cost of the state, no less.


If they were tried as minors, it's unlikely the would have gotten the necessary treatment they need. This is an example of the system working.

Onikage -
sewich - 
Donkey Hotee -

no, kids don't make adult decisions.  they arent capable of it, regardless of the gravity of the decision itself.  the juvenile system not being equipped to deal with their crime doesnt make it reasonable or acceptable to apply a different system that isnt equipped to deal with their crime. it seems quite obvious that it's just knee-jerk anger and a need for revenge in almost all of these cases, combined with a lazyness and unwillingness to deal with the real problem.

Kids do make adult decisions,   You don't need to be 18 to know that murder is bad.   


Do you not see how ass backwards it is to give a 12 year old girl 40 years for non-fatal violent crime?

Our legal system is set up based around the idea that kids are incapable of making rational decisions. Under our system, a 16 year old is incapable of making an informed decision about having sex with a 17 year old in many states.

You can't have it both ways. This is a complete lack of understanding regarding child development.

The sentence was harsh but that doesnt mean that a 12 year old doesnt know right from wrong. 

 

Show me a 12 year old who thinks stabbing people is ok and ill show you a 12 year old who should be locked the fuck up.