Christmas

I think Christ would be very unhappy with this holiday!

1. They use His name, call it his B-day, but Praise the fat man in the red suit who brings the goodies.

2. Even a lot of Christian parents lie to their children about Santa Claus. (I never told my kids that Santa was real)

3. People make donations.... but make sure they write it off on their tax return.

4. Sunday is Christmas eve. I bet more people will be shopping than going to church.

5. When you put up that christmas tree, remember that it was a symbol of an ancient tradition that had nothing to do with Christ.

6. If you have rasied your Children as true Christians, will they be just as happy on Christmas morning knowing that you are celebrating the birth of Christ without presents?

7. Are you buying your daughter a Barbie doll, and confirming that THAT is how women should be like?

8. I bet that more chocolate santas are given to children on that day than Bibles are given all year.

9. Do you (as a Christian) spend more on worthless trinkets during the holiday than you give to your church, or to charity?

10. Are you gonna flame me for posting these FACTS, or prove to me I'm wrong?

Yuki: I think Christ would be very unhappy with this holiday!

me: perhaps....

  1. They use His name, call it his B-day, but Praise the fat man in the red suit who brings the goodies.

me: not everyone...we don't, nor does our church...

  1. Even a lot of Christian parents lie to their children about Santa Claus. (I never told my kids that Santa was real)

me: not I...

  1. People make donations.... but make sure they write it off on their tax return.

me: so? as if giving it to the govt. to waste on fraud and mismanagement is moral...

  1. Sunday is Christmas eve. I bet more people will be shopping than going to church.

me: I don't know...

  1. When you put up that christmas tree, remember that it was a symbol of an ancient tradition that had nothing to do with Christ.

me: the "ever green" is a symbol of the resurrection...the evergreen doesn't "die" in the winter. Also Jesus is call the Root and the Branch and He was our present hung on a tree.

  1. If you have rasied your Children as true Christians, will they be just as happy on Christmas morning knowing that you are celebrating the birth of Christ without presents?

me: Sure, but giving is not bad and it's a blessing to see them receive...

don't be a scrooge. Jesus was given as the gift to manking, the wise men gave gifts, etc.

My children are taught that every day we celebrate His birth and the fact that He is still born in those with a humble "manger" (heart).

  1. Are you buying your daughter a Barbie doll, and confirming that THAT is how women should be like?

me: nope, Veggie Tales, arts and crafts, etc.

  1. I bet that more chocolate santas are given to children on that day than Bibles are given all year.

me: my daughter has 3 childrens bibles...were are you getting your facts since you are willing to bet?

  1. Do you (as a Christian) spend more on worthless trinkets during the holiday than you give to your church, or to charity?

me: nope..

  1. Are you gonna flame me for posting these FACTS, or prove to me I'm wrong?

me: nah, just comment while I have a few minutes.

nice reply rooster!

my daughter has 3 childrens bibles...were are you getting your facts since you are willing to bet?

Honestly, I am saying that because of personal experience. I have not scientifically researched the chocolate santa to bible sale history.

But.... I'm pretty sure more children will get a chocolate santa than a Bible. But did you get those Bibles for them as  Christmas gift?

so? as if giving it to the govt. to waste on fraud and mismanagement is moral...

It isn't... but do we have a choice? When you find a way to skip out on taxes, let me know!

Sure, but giving is not bad and it's a blessing to see them receive...

You know it brother! And the joy my girls have on Christmas day is trully a blessing. BUT... do you think they would feel happy knowing they were celebrating the birth of their 'savior' without those gifts?

 

Yuki, my 2 year old wouldn't realize anything if we didn't do presents, my 5 year old would probably be disappointed that day.

Yeah, for many people Christmas is a display of commercialism... But the motivation for giving gifts is love, after all. And the number of people who volunteer and donate to charity skyrockets at Christmas.

Underneath the glitz and presents there is a real, meaningful spirit to the holiday, and I think that's what people really like about Christmas.

Some of your points are a bit nit-picky, though. For instance, why wouldn't people write off donations on tax returns? Writing off donations doesn't make one greedy. And children are children. Of course they love Christmas because they get presents. But as they grow older, they will see the "reason for the season" and will soon enjoy giving presents (and to charity, and volunteering...) more than receiving them.

Santa Claus is something that's fun for children and is based on tradition - Parents are simply continuing the work of St. Nick, and his giving spirit personified as "Santa Claus." Sure the reindeer and elves are a bit silly, but it's not harmful. I'll continue this tradition with my children just as my parents did with my brother and I.

Oh, and I'm sure I will be shopping on Christmas Eve, as I am a notorious procrastinator... Thank goodness for midnight mass, eh? :)

I do wish that adults didn't give gifts.  It just turns into a form of blackmail for a lot of people.  The real St. Nicholas of Smyra gave gifts to children on Christmas. 

Christmas can mean a lot more than that, but often it doesn't. I will mean more for my family.

rev

"5. When you put up that christmas tree, remember that it was a symbol of an ancient tradition that had nothing to do with Christ"

St. Boniface Story

Why do we have a decorated Christmas Tree? In the 7th century a monk from Crediton, Devonshire, went to Germany to teach the Word of God. He did many good works there, and spent much time in Thuringia, an area which was to become the cradle of the Christmas Decoration Industry.

Legend has it that he used the triangular shape of the Fir Tree to describe the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The converted people began to revere the Fir tree as God's Tree, as they had previously revered the Oak. By the 12th century it was being hung, upside-down, from ceilings at Christmastime in Central Europe, as a symbol of Christianity.

The first decorated tree was at Riga in Latvia, in 1510. In the early 16th century, Martin Luther is said to have decorated a small Christmas Tree with candles, to show his children how the stars twinkled through the dark night.

What rooster said

that is actually a nice story Sherm, but the fact is the use of the evergreen was due to the pagan celebration of the birth and death of the sun god during winter solstice. The yule log was burned symbolizing the death of the sun god on the shortest day of the year, and the evergreen was brought into the house on the next day to symbolize the rebirth of the sun god. It was a symbol of resurection and fertility and it was subverted by Christians.

rev

Maybe so rev, but pagan mythology is rooted in the ancient prophecies of the coming One.

Maybe so rev, but pagan mythology is rooted in the ancient prophecies of the coming One.

Ok... I'm calling BS on this rooster. Only because you mean Jesus by "the coming one". Please back that up.

And the rev is correct.

Yuki, my 2 year old wouldn't realize anything if we didn't do presents, my 5 year old would probably be disappointed that day.

I understand that. As would my children. But if there were no gifts, it wouldn't mean much to children.

The pagan origins argument is moot, everything is pagan until it is given to Christ, when this happens it is no longer pagan. Humans are pagan until baptized.

Um.....

That makes no sense at all, ocianian. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you?

He made sense to me.  Christianity takes up the natural/pagan world, including fallen man, into itself.  Most things can be converted to serve Christ.  If a holiday once had pagan origins that doesn't mean it can't be co-opted by Christians. 

yuki: Ok... I'm calling BS on this rooster. Only because you mean Jesus by "the coming one". Please back that up.

me: what do you mean you are calling bs on that? God gave a promise to ancient man that one was coming who would be different then any other man. He would be a special child, born of the seed of a woman. He would do something that adam, the created of God, born in innocence, could not do. He would destroy evil. He would destroy and crush the head of the serpent that caused all of man's woe's.

The ancients were waiting for the coming redeemer, a man like no other and sought him in political figures and eventually created pantheons, with bastardized versions of this coming Messiah.

You can read "the Gospel in the stars" and it will take you through the most original names of the constellation. The signs which are stooped in mythology are rooted in the promise of the coming redeemer, from the number of "chapters" to the names of the constellations, to the order, to the minor stars etc.

for instance, the ancient constellations always had a picture of the sphynx (remember that creature? Head of woman, body of a lion?) the most ancient zodiaks show the sphynx looking at virgo and the body pointing at Leo. this is your first clue...you must start at Virgo and end with Leo. Virgo is a VIRGIN! In her hands are Branches and Seeds. Jesus was the promised BRANCH (messianic name) and He compared Himself to the seed that must be buried to bear life.

It goes on to show the VIRGIN sitting with a child on her lap who is called THE DESIRED ONE...etc.

This goes on and on..from Hercules (the son of Zeus, half man, half god, who labored and suffered for his father) to Jason and the argonauts (who journeyed to find the GOLDEN FLEECE, which HUNG ON A TREE, and was guarded by Cerebus, THE HOUND OF HELL).

It's in the story of Perseus, theseus etc. ad nauseum. google the book and read Yuki.

Anyone who gets worried over christmas and whether its right or wrong apparently has a hell of a lot more time and money than I do. Just go to your inlaws and shut the hell up. Say thanks and enjoy. You could be living in the sudan or darfor or some other somalia like hell hole.

I am not worried about it. It is the wrong date, and most of its traditions come from pagan religions. And I love it. It is a time for me to remember the miracle of the incarnation, and a call to be the incarnation in todays world.

If there was one thing I would be worried about, its not the pagan roots of the traditions, the guys covered that pretty well, in Christ all can be redeemed. The consumeristic, materialistic aspects of Christmas is what I can't stand.

rev

I guess the holiday can ask many questions but as far as people getting out of kilter over pagan origins, the Christians redeemed these days so I would think it would be something to rejoice in rather than shrink in fear.