Can you please discuss the use of the far arm? How and why is it best used?
I have seen it placed inside the far thigh, or grabbing those pants ... or weaving inside the far arm for wrist-control. Why would you choose one versus the other?
Putting your arm in under his would seem to invite him rolling you over. How to avoid this?
the point of control of you "other" arm is not nearly as important of the placement of your weight. you can grab his gi his arm his pants or inside his theigh, but you need to have good pressure with your body weight to keep from being rolled.
on that note i prefer the arm grip because i can transition to back and from back to clock choke more easily depending on my opponents reaction (if the reaction isnt tapping or going to sleep right away) =)
^^^ yup. It also stops the guy from using his hand to defend your choke grip and I think it's an easier reach without compromising my weight distribution.
I like grabbing the outside of the far knee.
Also if you grab under on his opp lapel (the one closest to you) grab lower down towards the centre of the body as sperry has explained.
"Nobody wakes up here..."
The 90degress at your choking arms elbow is important!
I agree with Ben. You cant go past Ze Mario's version of he clock choke, it's been one of my go to moves for years!
Ze Mario Clock = Garcia taking the back.
Nice analogy Ben!!! So true :-)
Marcelo uses the seatbelt grip a lot which does subject the elbow to getting trapped and rolled easily.
I've dealt w/ the same problem kingabiu is asking about.
My conclusion is
1. don't put the far arm in too deep, if he can trap the elbow you may get rolled.
2. adjust your weight, so you're not floating on top of him. Takes a lot of feel and experience to get your weight right.
3. be prepared to go to the back. Damien Maia cover this in his back attacks dvd, and Cobrinha also does this. As the guy starts to trap the far elbow, you place your knee thats closest to him up on the small of his back and are prepared to roll with him and take his back if he does indeed roll.
While we're on the topic of the clock choke, I noticed that Saulo and Sperry have different versions of each. Anyone know if one is really better than the other or do you think that is just a personal style thing between the two different ones.
Sperry seems to throw his weight in his upper body forward over the opponent
Saulo shoots his hips forward over the shoulder of the opponent
Any insight as to the mechanics and reasoning behind both?
bonez05 - Marcelo uses the seatbelt grip a lot which does subject the elbow to getting trapped and rolled easily.
I've dealt w/ the same problem kingabiu is asking about.
My conclusion is
1. don't put the far arm in too deep, if he can trap the elbow you may get rolled.
2. adjust your weight, so you're not floating on top of him. Takes a lot of feel and experience to get your weight right.
3. be prepared to go to the back. Damien Maia cover this in his back attacks dvd, and Cobrinha also does this. As the guy starts to trap the far elbow, you place your knee thats closest to him up on the small of his back and are prepared to roll with him and take his back if he does indeed roll.
^ this. Awareness is the key. Too many people keep the non choking hand buried for too long and get swept. Dont commit that hand until youre ready to commit to the choke.
I disagree with controlling the far arm; I grab the pile of fabric outside their far knee. This is the way that Relson teaches and will never get you rolled.
TheRealMKL - While we're on the topic of the clock choke, I noticed that Saulo and Sperry have different versions of each. Anyone know if one is really better than the other or do you think that is just a personal style thing between the two different ones.
Sperry seems to throw his weight in his upper body forward over the opponent
Saulo shoots his hips forward over the shoulder of the opponent
Any insight as to the mechanics and reasoning behind both?
I can only comment on the Saulo version since I train at a Saulo affiliated school.
I understand it this way... We the hip in front of the shoulder and sag into it to place the weight on the shoulder. This drives the opponent forward into the choke. Then we "clock walk" to the opposite side of the trapped shoulder & choking hand and put our heads to the mat. Driving your head to the mat makes your chocking arm pull towards his anterior making the choke even tighter by pulling the collar with it.
The clock "motion" doesn't produce the choke its the driving of his shoulder with weight via your hip and the pull of your choking arm as you drive your head to the mat thus pulling the collar tighter.
As far as not getting rolled... I dunno I cup the farside thigh with my far side arm.
The "clock walk" should only be initiated by the defender to relieve pressure. Sitting on his near shoulder and pulling up on the collar grip is what effects the choke.
I like to spiral ride the inner thigh with my non choking hand. It's very hard to get rolled that way and also makes it difficult for the opponent to turn in and negate the choke.
im not following u mat pimp. whats this clock walk defense?
TheRealMKL - While we're on the topic of the clock choke, I noticed that Saulo and Sperry have different versions of each. Anyone know if one is really better than the other or do you think that is just a personal style thing between the two different ones.
Sperry seems to throw his weight in his upper body forward over the opponent
Saulo shoots his hips forward over the shoulder of the opponent
Any insight as to the mechanics and reasoning behind both?
i dont know about mechanics but i feel like i get the tap more often with sperry's style putting my upper body weight forward.