Competency difference between bjj and no gi.

i feel the complete opposite. i train in both, and when the gi's off, i'm a bitch to hold down in any position. it's like trying to squeeze soap. i feel like stronger guys get to me in the gi more, because they can amplify their control on me by gripping my gi. in the end though i think it's just a matter of you being more adapted to fighting people with different attributes one way than another.

Malachy Friedman - 
joshjitsu - 
Malachy Friedman - maybe im the only one but no gi is easier for me bc of the easy motions i can go through without the static grip

in gi

(2 weeks in)
i am using a ton of static grip strength just to pass or maintain position where in no gi i would easily be able to slide or jump to another position without feeling a sweep was coming bc of my opponents grip


Your just having difficulty because you don't know what to do. Give it time and that will change.



thanks i'm beating the higher belts just feels like im beating them with no gi techniques....it pisses off all the guys but then i have to let them know ive been no gi for more then 6 years


Sounds like your ready for your next belt then, obviously 6 years of nogi you will be advancing much quicker than your average joe. Keep it up!

I have alot of respect for all strict nogi guys that start training with the gi, it really shows a desire to get to that next level and a willingness to challenge yourself.

thanks

i dont even know what I'm grabbing though ...i am a very technical no gi guy so adding the gi i have to respect it learn it and appreciate every aspect before i feel im ready

this is really a falling out of love story with mma

i started grappling to do mma....but i was a ground guy..never had any real teachers just some good partners i learned off video and training everyday

i looked up to murilo bustamante sheilds diaz the nogs

technique they all have it and use it in beautiful highlight fashion which is what i always tried to do in my fights

now its how can you disengage from your opponent. how can you learn less as possible to stand back up and throw a right hand.

i havent been able to keep an opponent in six trys and they all backed out and i said screw it go with the first love, the technique, earn the black, see the roots of the sport one day compete in worlds and no gi make a name and come back to mma later but of course help my team in training for their fights

alexgb72 - Just look at the list of ADCC champions (and finalists) from 2009

Braulio Estima (finalist Xande Ribeiro) - Absolute

Rafael Mendes (finalist Cobrinha)

Pablo Popovitch (finalist Marcelo Garcia)

Braulo Estima (finalist André Galvão)

Xande Ribeiro (finalist Gerardi Rinaldi)

Fabricio Werdum (finalist Roberto Cyborg)


ALL BJJ black belts with a gi background.It's not a coincidence. Transition from gi to no gi is much easier than the other way around


9 out of 10 of those guys are Brazilian, and there isn't really a strong no-gi only training culture there. What we're seeing is that still most of the good grapplers are from Brazil. Once it starts evening out and you see Japanese winning at the lower weight classes and some Americans and Europeans winning at the higher weight classes, and just 6 or so of them being Brazilian, and they're still all Black Belts with a gi background it'll be a bit more conclusive, as it'll have shown that it's been around long enough for the skill level to have caught up elsewhere that if NoGi were adequate you'd see some NoGi only Americans winning (more than just Mark Kerr anyway).

Depends on what your game is like. If you play collar grip and sleeve, it's more of an adaptation to go from gi to nogi. If you play primarily underhook/overhook in the gi, it's basically like going from chess to checkers to go from gi to nogi ... quite easy.

laqueus - 
alexgb72 - Just look at the list of ADCC champions (and finalists) from 2009

Braulio Estima (finalist Xande Ribeiro) - Absolute

Rafael Mendes (finalist Cobrinha)

Pablo Popovitch (finalist Marcelo Garcia)

Braulo Estima (finalist André Galvão)

Xande Ribeiro (finalist Gerardi Rinaldi)

Fabricio Werdum (finalist Roberto Cyborg)


ALL BJJ black belts with a gi background.It's not a coincidence. Transition from gi to no gi is much easier than the other way around


9 out of 10 of those guys are Brazilian, and there isn't really a strong no-gi only training culture there. What we're seeing is that still most of the good grapplers are from Brazil. Once it starts evening out and you see Japanese winning at the lower weight classes and some Americans and Europeans winning at the higher weight classes, and just 6 or so of them being Brazilian, and they're still all Black Belts with a gi background it'll be a bit more conclusive, as it'll have shown that it's been around long enough for the skill level to have caught up elsewhere that if NoGi were adequate you'd see some NoGi only Americans winning (more than just Mark Kerr anyway).


When's it going to happen? BJJ has been in the US since the late 80's early 90's....

Fact is all good no gi fighters have a gi background, because training in a gi makes them better than if they trained only no gi.

The reason most of the top guys have started in Gi is because they werent a lot of No-gi training schools out there in the past. You will see many of the future grappling stars have little to no gi training in tournaments like ADCC, Grapplers Quest, and MMA

alexgb72 - 
laqueus - 
alexgb72 - Just look at the list of ADCC champions (and finalists) from 2009

Braulio Estima (finalist Xande Ribeiro) - Absolute

Rafael Mendes (finalist Cobrinha)

Pablo Popovitch (finalist Marcelo Garcia)

Braulo Estima (finalist André Galvão)

Xande Ribeiro (finalist Gerardi Rinaldi)

Fabricio Werdum (finalist Roberto Cyborg)


ALL BJJ black belts with a gi background.It's not a coincidence. Transition from gi to no gi is much easier than the other way around


9 out of 10 of those guys are Brazilian, and there isn't really a strong no-gi only training culture there. What we're seeing is that still most of the good grapplers are from Brazil. Once it starts evening out and you see Japanese winning at the lower weight classes and some Americans and Europeans winning at the higher weight classes, and just 6 or so of them being Brazilian, and they're still all Black Belts with a gi background it'll be a bit more conclusive, as it'll have shown that it's been around long enough for the skill level to have caught up elsewhere that if NoGi were adequate you'd see some NoGi only Americans winning (more than just Mark Kerr anyway).


When's it going to happen? BJJ has been in the US since the late 80's early 90's....

Fact is all good no gi fighters have a gi background, because training in a gi makes them better than if they trained only no gi.


Brazil has a 50 year at least head start, and a pretty sizeable population. They have schools with more black belts than lower belts, so they have a huge talent pool. It'll be a few more decades.

yeah, when? even GSP has a black belt in BJJ, and trains with a gi.

if strictly no gi guys are just as good, then they should be able to compete in, and win at elite competitions like the ADCC. But where are they? It has nothing to do with the fact that there are a lot of brazilians...but everything to do with the QUALITY of the training.

alexgb72 - if strictly no gi guys are just as good, then they should be able to compete in, and win at elite competitions like the ADCC. But where are they? It has nothing to do with the fact that there are a lot of brazilians...but everything to do with the QUALITY of the training.


Alex I think they are arguing the same point in that there has been much less quality training available in strictly no-gi in the past.

Only time will tell if it is possible to compete at an ADCC level without the GI but to say that it hasn't happened consistently yet therefore it can never happen is silly

alexgb72 - yeah, when? even GSP has a black belt in BJJ, and trains with a gi.


I have to question your intelligence if I say "a few decades" and you promptly ask "when?"

alexgb72 - just adapt your grips. for example

wrist control instead of sleeve grip
back of the neck instead of collar
back of the ankle/heel instead of pants



Exactly. People make waaaay too much of a fuss about the transition from gi to no gi. It's not rocket science and everyone high ranked grappler I've encountered that trains primarily in gi still has a tight, crushing and suffocating no-gi game.

laqueus - 
alexgb72 - yeah, when? even GSP has a black belt in BJJ, and trains with a gi.


I have to question your intelligence if I say "a few decades" and you promptly ask "when?"


And I have to question your intelligence when you automatically assume I am replying to you...I wasn't.

Saku12 - 
alexgb72 - if strictly no gi guys are just as good, then they should be able to compete in, and win at elite competitions like the ADCC. But where are they? It has nothing to do with the fact that there are a lot of brazilians...but everything to do with the QUALITY of the training.


Alex I think they are arguing the same point in that there has been much less quality training available in strictly no-gi in the past.

Only time will tell if it is possible to compete at an ADCC level without the GI but to say that it hasn't happened consistently yet therefore it can never happen is silly



When did I say it will never happen...? But the fact is that the ADCC has been held for almost 10 years, and there haven't been any consistent strictly no gi champions...same goes for Eddie Bravo. Where are his champions? Even Prokopos has a gi base. I'm just saying that if it was that good, if these strictly no gi guys discovered some secret that all the gi guys don't know about, then we would have already seen some more consistent results. And we haven't.
Who knows what will happen in 50-100 years. I'm talking about now. Does it take wrestlers over 20 years to learn submissions and submission defense?? Or is it the quality of the training, with a gi base, that is better?

Oh boy this will just never die. Gi makes you better, there is a level of technicality that you will never reach without it. If you don't believe it fine, but every nogi only school I visit, the level is extremely lower overall than your average gi school

I personally think that b/c the gi slows you down so much, you just spend more time analyzing each position, so when you transfer to no-gi, the movements are in your muscle memory, but you can just perform them way faster.

I talk to (imo) some of the best instructors and practitioners on the subject and they all say the gi is the way to tighten your game and really become a well rounded grappler

I'd be curious to see what Mark Kerr has to say about that, given he was ADCC champ. BJJ can't have advanced that much in 10 years that what he accomplished is invalid.

alexgb72 - 
Saku12 - 
alexgb72 - if strictly no gi guys are just as good, then they should be able to compete in, and win at elite competitions like the ADCC. But where are they? It has nothing to do with the fact that there are a lot of brazilians...but everything to do with the QUALITY of the training.


Alex I think they are arguing the same point in that there has been much less quality training available in strictly no-gi in the past.

Only time will tell if it is possible to compete at an ADCC level without the GI but to say that it hasn't happened consistently yet therefore it can never happen is silly



When did I say it will never happen...? But the fact is that the ADCC has been held for almost 10 years, and there haven't been any consistent strictly no gi champions...same goes for Eddie Bravo. Where are his champions? Even Prokopos has a gi base. I'm just saying that if it was that good, if these strictly no gi guys discovered some secret that all the gi guys don't know about, then we would have already seen some more consistent results. And we haven't.
Who knows what will happen in 50-100 years. I'm talking about now. Does it take wrestlers over 20 years to learn submissions and submission defense?? Or is it the quality of the training, with a gi base, that is better?


I really don't want to get into this painfully stupid argument, all Im saying is that you seem to be arguing with a point that no one is trying to make.

i.e. no one is saying that no-gi is inherently better than gi, or even that training in the gi is not better for building your fundamentals all anyone has said is that no gi is a different game and that there is some adjustment needed. That I think has been shown even with high level players, Cobrinha for example did not have the same success right away without the gi. He was of course still amazing just not the same relative to his competition. Also many of the guys competing in ADCC commented about training without the gi leading up to the competition, which would seem to speak to the fact that it there are some changes to be made.

At any rate I feel a little silly for again wasting my time.