This question is for everyone that has a BB in a TMA. Knowning what you know now about MMA could you still teach Karate or TKD and teach it in a traditional fashion? Meaning still showing students Katas, reverse punches and Such? I hold a BB ranking in TKD and have thought about teaching kids through the Big Brother Assoc but Im back and forth about teaching Katas and such. What do you guys think?
Why not?
sure, why not? if it bothers you, just teach Judo or something too, so they'll still be well rounded
why not its good for discipline ect a lot of modern mma guys could learn a lot from the work ethic many of the tma stylists have..
is it going to work in a cage ?? not often but that doesnt make it useless.
I see what you mean Claude and thats what I want to give the kids Disipline and direction like it did for me when I was a kid. I was thinking about incorperating basic punches instead of reverse punching and as they get older as Hornbuckle said teach them the basics of wrestling, Judo and BJJ and let them go from there.
"Boxing, Muay Thai, other systems that involve a lot of hard sparring plain and simple are not good for developing bodies."
Really? In the case of boxing it seems to be the way to produce champions. Also what evidence do you have to support the Thai statement? I know alot of fighters in Thailand are shot at the age of 25, but I think that has more to do with having 200-300 fights by that age, alot of them 2-3 weeks apart. Moreso than early, young training.
I really don't understand those that say that TMA are better for developing character, discipline, etc.
Is there some inherent magical development of these things by learning to punch with your hands down or to do a low block with your forearm?
Why teach the kids bad habits in a fighting art?
What is the point of a kata? It doesn't teach focus.
The kids really get better training through various degrees of sparring.
The fighting skills are independent of character development. You may as well teach the kids how to box, wrestle, and ground fight.
You could still implement talks on the mat, parent and teacher sign offs for belt advancement, belt testing (hopefully without charging $50+ a pop every 2 months). You can do this and teach BJJ or MMA to kids.
If they aren't ready for all out sparring (especially striking and joint locks) then develop isolated sparring drills and work them up to that point.
I work a lot of wrestling and judo in my kids jiu jitsu/mma class, with some submission and striking - with striking I try to really emphasize the striking defense first.
There's nothing wrong with teaching TMAs. They're good exercise, can be fun, and can do a great job of instilling respect and discipline into young practitioners.
The trick is to present it was what it is - sport. The problem with TMAs (which is the problem that MMA solved, to some degree) is that for a long time they were presented as "if you learn this art you will be a two-legged death machine, mowing down all who oppose you".
im not saying tma are better or worse just in most systems used for mma/combat applications there is for the most part a much less rigid structure.. take boxing for example its a sport not martial art. a lot of jiujitsu clubs are the same way like you can smoke a joint before teaching jits nobody gonna say a thing but in a karate class (while im sure there are exceptions)it would be an uproar :) lol im sure there must be an eddie bravo or drew fickett of karate? anyone know who it is
Traditional martial arts are good for discipline. Wrestling, BJJ, judo are GREAT for discipline. TMA will be totally gone in 25 years because of MMA.
"TMA will be totally gone in 25 years because of MMA."
LOL...yes thousands of years of history will be gone because of SPIKE TV and The Ultimate Wigga show....why not just say boxing, fencing and fighting in hockey games will be gone because of MMA while you are at it
I say teach it, but in conjunction with other arts (muay thai, BJJ, etc,).
I DO. I've got a 5th Dan in TKD. I still teach it. Our traditional class is 50% TKD (forms, 2 steps, kicks) & 50% mix of Boxing, Muay Thai, Hapkido, Judo, & BJJ techniques plus sport karate (for self defense & sparring). We also do separate tumbling(XMA), kickboxing, matrats (bjj), & mma classes. TKD brought me this far & allowed me the opportunity to keep training which in turn allowed me to crosstrain & learn other stuff. If I think it's practical we use it. If I think it builds character I use it. If I think the students will enjoy I use it. But more directly, with TMA, if I think it teaches people to respect the past & other martial artists despite their style, if taught correctly.
Sure it MIGHT build character, flexibility, etc...but it also gives people...women, children & men a false sense of ability/security when facing an attack in the street...just a fact...specially how black belts have been handed out like candy here in the US since the 70's including to kids. All those straight punches & blocks that they learn go out the window when attacked and they start throwing wild punches and freeze.
"LOL...yes thousands of years of history will be gone because of SPIKE TV and The Ultimate Wigga show....why not just say boxing, fencing and fighting in hockey games will be gone because of MMA while you are at it"
TMAs as taught in America and all over the world are not part of a thousand years of history. They are watered down, dried out, and meant to cater to the meekest of individuals in societies. Shotokan became a specific style with kata and such so that Funakoshi could present it to the gentler population of Japan and not have people put off immediately by the rough nature of old style Jujitsu.
But Funakoshi was apparently a marketing genious, and it took hold and most TMA's are very similar in curriculum and style of class. TMA's are going NO WHERE, anyone who actually lives in the real world and not in a BJJ/spiketv/UFC bubble knows this. The nature of the classes is non threatening, people are allowed to perform in a group with very defined social expectations. alot of people like this, TKD is a huge success for these reasons.
If combat practicality were the driving force in the martial arts instruction industry, TMAs would have never gotten rolling. Judo would be huge, wrestling and boxing would have been much more popular and BJJ though it would be something new, would not have been the trojan horse that Americans never saw coming.
Personally I dont think TMA's have anything over BJJ,wrestling, kickboxing or boxing with regards to a kid learning self respect, building confidence, or learning discipline. Most MMA based gyms tend to be much more laid back with the sensai talk and yes sirs and bowing, but the individual has more on him with regard to expected work load. Its also the nature of BJJ, wrestling, boxing, and kickboxing to get fairly immediate feedback from rolling/sparring. Alot of parents and for that matter kids (hell adults too) can not bear the unbearable news that they need more work and currently suck; sometimes the feedback in TMA is much more subtle, and generally not as tough on the ego.
Also, often MMA's biggest roadblocks to getting new people to try it out are the posers who always talk training or the tools with alot of gear who train only on the open mats on Saturdays. They tend to paint a grisly and false picture as to what goes on in training, keeping the sensible people out since they dont know any better than what these tools tell them about "ultimate fighting".
As many of you are aware, Bas Rutten has said that TMAs are a great way for kids to build a foundation...
actually, at the gym i used to teach at, we gave kids a modified mma
curriculum and they loved it.
they learned basic judo throws and trips. basic bjj subs, positions and
sweeps as well as kickboxing and the clinch.
not only was it safe and fun, but those kids were VERY good at it.
why would you teach them something non-effective when they might
have to defend themselves with it.
in the case of one of our blackbelts, he was attacked by a kid in HS
who was 8 in. taller and 50 lbs heavier...
not only did he knock the kid down (twice) after being attacked from
behind on two seperate occasions after he tried to walk away, but he
then tossed the kid with a hip throw and ended the situation with as
little damage done as possible. it was VERY impressive.
you can't argue with results like that. the fact is that after doing
everything right, from trying to diffuse the situation and wlaking away,
he was forced to defend himself and he did so with the most effective
defense art on the planet... MMA...
if he had been taught something else, he would have been seriously
hurt.
the plain and simple truth is that YES, it is possible to teach kids MMA
safely, efficiently and effectively. just dont forget that they are kids, not
adults, and they are learning to have fun and be effective, not step in
the ring.
as long as you keep in mind that they are not training for the ring like
adults, you should have no problem teaching MMA to kids. we found
that they always rose to the level of our expectations. that's why one of
them was ranked 2nd in his teens division for NAGA. if you expect
more, you will get it. don't sell the kids short. if you expect greatness,
they will live up to it for the rest of their lives.
Guy Mezger teaches a traditional Karate program, and its one of the best programs for kids I have ever seen. It has belt ranks and kata's similar to most other Karate disciplines, but and Guy mixes in judo and wrestling, and Kathy Brothers teaches the jiu jitsu segment of the program. Standup sparring allows alot of contact, the upper belts are fighting full contact with headgear and shinguards, sometimes with takedowns. Other than the kata's it's basically MMA while wearing a gi.
LOL @ thousands of years of tradition. This is not a religon. This is learning to fight. I know people who were "raised" in an art will stick with it because of tradition but for 99.9% of people who start martial arts to learn to fight ( at least well enough to defend yourself ) will want to learn something that actually works. Now people can see what works.
The gig is up with TMA's. The Mcdojos of the past will be no more.
'The gig is up with TMA's. The Mcdojos of the past will be no more.'
Prolly just see a shift torwards MMA/BJJ McDojos instead.