COVID is a virus that is meant to kill individual power, not individuals

It’s a point of debate but I would assert it would do far more than weaken them in “some” areas. China’s relationship with the West is purely parasitic. They don’t innovate, they assimilate. A parasite can not survive if they kill the host.

That being said, I suppose they could have a plan to take down the west then at that point retool their society to basically become the new West. They could succeed if they became innovators.

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I blame you for being criminally stupid.

Got to be fake imo

I think he just likes the reactions.

The same meme could be posted, switching covitard OGers like EY and Republican Men (49 percent who won’t take the vaccine) cowering from the vaccine.

I concur

Seriously, why should someone vaccinate for something that isn’t going to be an issue even if they did happen to catch it (which is not guaranteed)? A lot of people (dare I say most) don’t get vaccinated for the flu every year either. Why should they vaccinate for this? I get that the odds of complications from the vaccine are low, but they may not even catch covid, and even in the cases where they do catch it, 99% of people will be totally fine.

I am not overweight, elderly, or immunocompromised. Sell this vaccine to me.

Good point. Prof will set you straight… I think ha ha

His “meme argument” makes zero sense. If I have 0.1% chance of getting really sick or dying from Covid, why the fuck should I take a vaccine with even much smaller chances of doing me wrong… that I take voluntarily. Do you find people getting Covid on purpose acting more intelligently? Ha ha

I’m open minded and willing to change my opinion in light of a convincing, logical argument. Thus far, no one has been able to sell this vaccine to me either.

[quote=“CoughSyrupOD, post:27, topic:3662742, full:true”]
Seriously, why should someone vaccinate for something that isn’t going to be an issue even if they did happen to catch it (which is not guaranteed)? A lot of people (dare I say most) don’t get vaccinated for the flu every year either. Why should they vaccinate for this? I get that the odds of complications from the vaccine are low, but they may not even catch covid, and even in the cases where they do catch it, 99% of people will be totally fine.[/quote]

How is it even humanly possible to have kept yourself in the dark, given the answer to that is only blasted at humanity all day long during most of the pandemic, and you literally have the answer at your own fingertips if you just asked google?

Sorry, that would seem to be impossible. If you’ve managed to shield yourself from the ever present information about the logic of vaccines, a comment on the OG isn’t going to make a dent.

I’m not opposed to the idea of vaccination but you aren’t really selling this to me. If this thing is so great, it should be easy.

I’m especially interested in why I, as a young healthy individual, should take this vaccine now. Why not wait 10-20-30 years or when gain 100lbs and I am actually at risk from covid. Why should I take this vaccine now, when it is untested, for so little benefit (I’m extremely unlikely to die from covid in my current condition), when I could wait 30 years, have a better idea of what long term side effects there may be, and wait for the technology to improve?

I believe I gave you a lengthy list of reasons before, all the same evidence/science-based reasons behind why virologists and immunologists are recommending the vaccine. If no one is able to “sell” you on the vaccine it’s likely your own resistance at this point, not any lack of evidence or arguments.

Again: the answers are at your fingertips. Google.
Have you seriously not listened to any experts at all on the subject? If not, why the hell not?

The answer is:

  1. The risks for you are still, in all likelihood, higher for a bad outcome with covid than for a tragic outcome from a vaccine.

MORE IMPORTANT:

  1. You do your part to help get out of pandemic. The more people get vaccinated, the less able the virus is to spread. The closer we get to a form of herd immunity, or at least squash the acute pandemic.
    And, again VERY IMPORTANT: the faster and more people get vaccinated, the fewer bodies there will be in which the virus can continue to run rampant and replicate and MUTATE in to new and more dangerous/contagious variants…as we have ALREADY SEEN. Have you not heard about the variants?
    It’s only all over the news constantly. This is why the health experts keep saying about vaccinations “we are in a race against variants” trying to vaccinate as many people as possible to build a wall so the virus can’t keep replicating and mutating. You may say today “Why should I get vaccinated? The virus isn’t very deadly to people my age/health?” Well one reason is if lots of people like you stay unvaccinated you become hosts for the virus to replicate and possibly mutate in to a new strain that DOES cause more harm and death to younger healthier people - like the 1918 flu did.

That’s the fallacy behind how some people are thinking about this, like “look, if COVID is dangerous for your age or condition, YOU get the vaccine. I won’t take it and, hey, if I get the virus naturally it probably won’t harm me and I’ll just contribute to raising herd immunity.” No…what you are doing is offering the virus another chance to mutate and also to pass it on to someone else. Being vaccinated is a way of gaining high immunity in a way that reduces those risks.

People who study these things understand the Big Picture threats like this, that’s why they keep warning people about it, and explaining until they are blue in the face why as many of us should get vaccinated as possible. It’s our way out of the pandemic, but only if enough people pitch in.

Seriously: You really haven’t heard any of this before?

Do you really believe that once people are vaccinated, virus mutation will stop? Has this ever been observed before in a vaccinated population? Also, don’t viruses typically mutate to be less lethal over time? If vaccination stops virus mutation, how come we have to get a new flu vaccine every year?

What do you think about this article: Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Isn’t it basically saying the exact opposite of what you are saying? In the abstract of the article they say that;

Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population… some types of vaccines could prompt the evolution of more virulent (“hotter”) pathogens

Do you think that this may be a possibility considering there have already been recorded cases of vaccinated people transmitting, as well as being re-infected with covid?

You did and I appreciate you posting counter points and discussing your reasoning for the vaccine. I just found holes in the logic of many of these counter points and they did not convince me that getting the vaccine is the right choice for me.

My parents got the vaccine and I think that was the right choice for them. If I was 60+, obese, or had serious health problems I would get the vaccine. But in my current situation I am taking a wait and see approach.

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If the Covid vaccines were proven to end contamination from this AND all future variants and strains, Prof might have a case. Yet it’s not at all what is being implied. Variants, variants, variants. Vaccinated people still have to do social distancing, wear masks and all that bullshit. Yeah, easy sell ha ha

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Virus’s mutate, I don’t get all this talk from the lemmings about new strains and bla bla bla… This reason, and this reason alone should tell scientists that thing came from a lab if it’s mutating to a stronger variant this early on its life. It’s why Obama got so lucky when the shit came out during his term. When it initially makes that leap from animal to human, the infection rate is tiny and it’s easy to trace back to patient 0… covid 19 acts completely different. It’s one of the reasons the old CDC director beleives this came from a lab.
But variants happen… I think in the first few months, Australia ID’s a hundred different variants of the thing.

If the virus is eradicated by vaccines, of course it will stop mutating. But of course it won’t likely be eradicated, but it will be given SIGNIFICANTLY less opportunity to spread and mutate if we vaccinate to herd immunity. That’s basic logic and biology. If you are trying to throw a 6 on a die, do you think you are more likely to get there if you have one or two throws of the die, or if you get 100 throws?

Similarly, do you think there are just as good odds for the virus to land on a worrying new mutation if it is given, say, only 3 bodies a day in which to replicate vs Brazil with 100,000 infections a day?

Is the answer not obvious? We don’t need perfection, but we can get significantly BETTER odds of the virus posing less mutation threats when the number of bodies are taken away as vectors.

Of course! Aren’t you aware of the many vaccine successes? Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis, Rubella, Measles, Whooping Cough, Rotavirus, Mumps, Diphtheria etc. All these have been well controlled in societies that have high vaccination rates for those diseases. They mutate to a degree, but they aren’t running rampant through the world’s population so aren’t given as much chance to mutate as COVID is seeing now. (And, some mutate less often than COVID, no doubt).

Some do, some don’t. Have you noticed less virulence in rabies lately? Neither have I.
In the case of COVID, there’s evidence it has become MORE lethal either by simply becoming much more infectious hence causing more deaths, and/or by actually being more lethal (as there is some growing evidence).

First: the implication of your citing that paper seems to be that giving the population a vaccine that is not 100 percent efficacious against COVID infection is ill-advised.

You must know that this is a form of “anomaly-hunting,” right? You must know that the proposition is rejected almost unanimously by virologists, immunologists, disease transmission specialists etc, virtually all of whom are recommending to get as many people vaccinated as possible. Right?

You must be aware that the experts who UNDERSTAND how vaccination works have heralded vaccines like Pfizer and Moderna as amazing and welcome accomplishments in vaccine development and efficacy.

Why would experts who know what they are talking about say these things? Could it be that they actually understand the nature of vaccines better than you do? And that maybe going on anomaly-hunts like the one leading to that paper (likely spread around vaccine-hesitant social media) isn’t exactly the best way to understand what is going on?

Also, the general relevance of that paper should strike you as immediately suspect. NO vaccine is 100 percent effective. And yet many vaccines, like the ones I listed above, have been HIGHLY effective in stopping or controlling those diseases. Doesn’t this tip you off that drawing an implication from that paper to hesitancy about the COVID vaccines…hesitancy that experts don’t actually have…is a bit misinformed?

Do you think maybe that Israels amazing dropping numbers of deaths, hospitalization and cases of infection are just a coincidence given their world-leading vaccination campaign?

Why aren’t vaccine experts up in arms about the COVID vaccine? That paper went over some well-known subjects at the time, and many experts weighed in on the implications. Here is one expert, whose view was echoed by many others:

**Prof. Adrian Hill, Director of the Jenner Institute, University of Oxford, said:

“The change in Marek’s disease virus after vaccination is the rare textbook example of vaccine-driven viral evolution, and has been known about for many years. This paper provides experimental data consistent with that understanding. But it does not explain why, importantly, there is no evidence of this happening with other vaccines especially in humans, where many vaccines are used safely in millions of individuals every month. The suggestion that altered pathogen virulence should be looked for after vaccinating people is not new, and there is no evidence that human vaccines have produced more virulent pathogens. So, it is important not to claim from this example in chickens that this is a problem with vaccines in humans. There is strong evidence that widely used human vaccines are not producing any such effect.”"

Ok, shrug but I never saw you actually indicate where my post didn’t make sense. So you may still be hesitant, but I don’t see any well thought out reasons why. But…no one is forcing you, so of course it’s a personal decision.

It was a really long response and I didn’t have time to go through it piece by piece. But many of your arguments in support of the vaccine devolve into “appeal to authority” and that does not cut it for me.

If one of the main arguments is “trust these brilliant folks who understand it” (as in your response above), that doesn’t cut it for me.