I've read a number of reviews on Pe de Pano's and Tinguinha's cross guard instructional material, but would like some more opinions, if they exist.
The overall impression I have is that Tinguinha's is more of a collection of moves, without extensive time spent on setups or "realistic" resistance. And, the cross guard portion of Pano's set is "simpler", but more from the ground up into a few simple sweeps, and such.
Does anyone agree or disagree? I'm a mid-level blue looking to add some variation from the bottom and I've been messing around with the cross guard based on some material on Aesopian's site (thanks). I don't really plan on converting to 100% cross guard, but I'd like to make it a viable option.
Please let me know what you thought of the cross guard stuff by these two (and opinions on the other stuff on the Pano disc). Also, if there is any other cross guard stuff out there, please let me in on it.
Although I would not say PdP's set is simpler. Tinguinha's is more an "encylopedia" of moves from cross guard, whereas PdP's covers how he actually plays cross guard - how he defends it, transitions from and to it, and what moves he uses in situations. To me, PdP's approach is more valuable, although it should be noted that his DVD set is horribly organized and confusing compared to Tinguinha. Also, the second DVD is not particularly useful.
I love playing cross guard, btw, and the basic game is fairly easy to understand once you become effective at the "over the shoulder" sweep. That sweep is really the only hard part to learn, since it requires good timing and decent coordination. Apart from that, it's all omoplata to triangle to over-the shoulder sweep. Aesopian's instructionals cover this pretty well. The only thing I do different from what is shown by Aesopian's guides is that (like PdP) I don't rely on getting my other leg over the head. Instead I just keep the free foot on the hip, hooked under the other leg, or right under the crotch, aka the "crotch hook" that you see so often in tournament style BJJ but nobody ever teaches, for some reason probably relating to basic dignity concerns. Basically, it doesn't really matter so much where you put the other foot, because the omoplata generates the pressure, not the leg on the head.
Mighty, thank you for the response. I continue to lean toward PdP's set because I am starting from scratch and will likely be on my own (cross guard isn't a focus at my gym). I'm really looking for something that helps integrate the cross guard into my overall game.
I've only just begun playing with the sequence you describe, and have had a lot of luck, especially transitioning directly from a not-quite-good-enough over the shoulder sweep all the way back to an omo plata.
I'm looking for info on when and how to get into it, and then some tips for making the basic move set work. And, it seems PdP's stuff might be the ticket.
Only thing I would add is that the over-the-shoulder sweep is very weight dependent. It is magic for sweeping guys who are smaller than you, even when they are very advanced. However it is pretty damn poor against guys who have a substantial size advantage -- again regardless of skill level. For that reason, the cross guard is most effective in the hands of a relatively heavy but agile person, like PdP. I think turtle guard is the same way -- very effective against guys your size or smaller, but not very good against much larger/stronger opponents who will just smash the turtle like a bug.
Cross guard is still good against larger opponents, but for them I play more of a pure omoplata-type game.
I've definitely noticed the difference between over-the-shouldering a big guy vs. doing it against someone my size. I've also found that I have some real difficulty over-the-shouldering taller guys because I usually end up straddling further down their arm because of their built-in higher posture. But, I have also discovered that moving to the omo plata portion of the program has been successful
Without taking any money out of PdP's pocket (and taking too much time out of your day), do you have any favorite tips/tricks/techniques/triggers for getting into starting position. I find that I can get their once against a guy, but after that, they don't let my leg come over, and such. Any thoughts?
Honestly I would get Braulio's new set. Though not totally focused on the cross guard I believe this set will help your guard more than the others your mention.
Scrappy, thanks for the alternative. Is there any cross guard material on the Braulio set? I've seen some of the clips and it certainly looks very informative. But, I'm looking to add an option that a lot of folks haven't seen, so I can play with it and develop it as my own.
Uh oh, sounds like I need to start saving some more dough with an eye on the Braulio stuff. Is there a technique listing laying around anywhere? And, what makes you guys so high on the Braulio stuff? He's a stud, but it seems like this is a little different, whatever that means. Thanks.
It's weird, but I've never really experienced rolling with someone who has a really dangerous cross-guard. I've had a lot of guys try to use it against me, but once I break the cross grip and maintain my posture, I find that it is pretty easily broken down.
I know it is really effective since so many good guys pull it off in comp, just havent had any personal experience against guys who are really tough with it. I guess that's why I havent sought the material out.
But, Andre, you have not rolled against me and my two weeks of honing my cross guard game, based on an internet tutorial, against unwitting white belts and cooperative blues. I'm pretty sure I'd give you Pe de Pano-sized fits. Or not.
Anybody else with cross guard, or Braulio, opinions? Cheers.
Here I am losing my Mundials match a couple weeks ago against the guy who won the championship in my division out of 73 competitors. You can see some pretty decent cross guard in the first couple minutes, though I really blew the omoplata sweep by failing to keep his leg tight to my shoulder, allowing him to step across. My second big mistake in the match -- a blown footlock attempt about 4:00 in -- doomed me. In two parts, due to a cut by my fiancee that unfortunately obscures the part when I pulled cross guard.
Good match. The cross guard stuff was giving him fits, and that's what I'm looking to do, if possible.
I notice that you go for things "earlier" than I feel that I can. I think it's your first omo plata, you shoot it before you ever really establish full cross guard "starting position" (to my uneducated eye) and I have to get better at flowing from position to position like that. Do you feel that the PdP set gave you a better in-depth understanding of dealing with the kind of pressure that dude was throwing down? Thank you for posting, you are very skilled.
That isn't very "classical" cross guard. I should be reaching under his leg to grab the near sleeve for the omoplata sweep, not around his leg. The way he eventually gets out of cross guard in that vid is that I intentionally let go of my cross grip his sleeve because I wanted to pull his head down by the collar, making him vulnerable to the triangle. He wisely chose that time to scoop under my leg and start a smash pass.
However I was just kind of improvising. Everything is much uglier in competition than it is when you drill it or in an instructional.
I do think PdP's instructional is good for explaining what can go wrong with the cross guard, and how to deal with it. Cross guard is really hard to pass, and that is one of its biggest benefits. At the same time, it gives you a lot of offensive options. For me, it is my favorite open guard, due to its combination of high offense and high defense.
My "dream guard" is a combination of PdP's cross guard with Braulio's closed guard and spider loop guard. With a bit of shin guard and DLR (also shown on the Braulio instructional) thrown in for boot (you can see me trying to spin to the back with DLR at the very start of the first vid).
If I were you packer I would wait for a few more people to chime in before investing in the pdp dvds. I honestly thought that the pdp dvds were really bad. These sentiments were also echoed by twinkletoes, Indrek, to name a few on this forum.
Why? For one, the translation on the dvd borders on terrible to horrible. PDP will say a ton of things and the translation would be one sentence lacking any detail. If you are visual, then you may be able to catch PDP's general strategy. That being said, you will not find precise mechanics to the over the shoulder sweep which is a staple sweep of the cross guard. Now that I think of it I don't he doesn't describe any mechanics at all and just shows his combo.
Furthermore, the cross guard is only a very small piece of the entire set. I would say it occupies about 25% of the material.
Perhaps the only redeeming value to this set was watching how he handles the pass to his weak side (the side of the non-cross gripped arm) when he has cross guard. It's a really short section where he basically teaches you how to roll to your knees and not get your shoulder trapped.
Tinguinha's, while more on the encyclopedic, is far far more detailed. He covers minute things that are incredibly important. For one, his explanation of using his hips to create leverage from the cross guard is critical to success. He also explained in really great detail the sweeps from the cross guard the details of which is NOT found anywhere on the PDP dvds.
Lastly, I would say you also study some gi footage of Alberto Crane. This is GREAT at the crossguard and has used it at high levels. Unlike PDP, he is significantly smaller and uses it to perfection.
I thought there was some cross guard on Braulio's set. Definitely some cross gripping with the hook and rolling through for omoplatas. Either way it's been more beneficial for me than PDP. As someone said the cross guard, especially the sweep can be tough on bigger guys. It is great on smaller guys....but I get in trouble with big guys when I go for it.
A sincere thanks you to everyone who has responded. I really appreciate info from all sides.
I guess I might be most interested in dealing with what can go wrong with cross guard stuff, and how to deal with the situations that the wrongness gets me into. Does the Tinguinha set deal with this a bit?
I'm not a big leg lasso guard guy, but a few of you are very close to selling me on Braulio, thanks. And, I'll definitely look up some Crane footage, as I'm not quite PdP-esqe in my stature.
And, thank you again, Mighty for the footage. Flowing into and out of the DLR from semi-cross guard is definitely something I need to start thinking about. More options make me happy. Cheers.