Hey guy's I have been lurking around here lately and I really like what the SBG guys have to say about real combat and it's training,although I have never trained in J.K.D I have always adhered to it's theory
and philosohpy for many years."It's all good"
My question is at what expense is crosstraining in different arts too quickly counterproductive,and how quickly should one
start crosstraining.I have noticed that most champions in the N.H.B arenas come from a solid base first in that they are olympic wrestlers,world champion kickboxers or bjj
specialist in other words they attained greatness in their respective art first before "effectively crosstrainig"at what expense should someone start crosstraining quickly? and can this possibly lead to the jack of all trades master of none syndrome?how far away are we from being able to really start training in striking and grappling from the very first day and become
very effective at both?
I believe that speading yourself too thin has
hurt some(not all) J.K.D schools in the past
so how can one really make sure addressing all areas of combat to quickly cannot become
counterproductive,I personally feel it can be done properly in as far as intergrating striking and grappling from the very first day as long as one has a competent coach.One has to develop profieciency in a fighting skill to a high degree to be able to pull it off for real,so when?how soon?should one start crosstraning?
Agree,but well roundedness can be attained,sakuraba,pele,newton etc.
I'm going to say it now, but I'll explain later:
Crosstraining is NOT the answer to fighting proficiency.
Personally, I think that a MMA/SBG-type training is where it's at. The ability to mix all the pertinent skills (boxing, Greco clinch, BJJ, etc...)from the get-go makes sense to me. I think the BJJers, Kboxers, wrestlers all succeeded because their training was the most realistic at that point in time... but times are changing. They had very little opportunity to train somewhere, early in their careers, that blended all of these skills. They had that knowledge in that one area, and then proceeded to train in the areas they were lacking. Bas and Mo were awesome kboxers, they added other skills... and became better all-round fighters. The people that train with them in the future will only benefit from their experience.
JMO... -Kev
Henderson initially utilised wrestling and Ground and pound but has "evolved" into being more of a standup fighter with an awesome right hand (see vs Vanderlei) and standing clinch. I think its more about evolving....
You start with your solid base style...your nuclear bomb if you will....from their you can evolve into other fields such as striking, submissions, takedowns, standing clinch, weapons etc....but in order to have those work you must have your nuclear bomb...your backup plan...this will strengthen your active plan as u know you can resort back to it.
A perfect eg of this was randleman vs MO/Rizzo, Randleman actually did better than both of them on the feet and they are both world class strikers...this is because he had no fear of beign taken down and if he started losing on his feet he had his backup plan....Mo and Rizzo were too scared to unload because their groundwork and takedown defense was not at the level that they had confidence enough.....it both cost them dearly on the feet....
It didnt work so well against Pete, because pete had a good ground game as a backup and initially punished randleman (i personally say he was robbed...)
Take this and apply it anywehre you want....You need somethign solid to evolve from!!! choose your poison!
I agree with it's all good. The problem I've seen is that you spend so much time using sticks, knives, wing chun, muay thai and who knows what else that it hurts your combat effectiveness. Most of us do not go around with sticks and daggers handy. It's hard to say how you should go about training, most of the successful nhb fighters all have a solid background in one art before they started cross training. Do you need to cross train? I say yes. Royce Gracie handled everyone when jiujitsu was still new. I don't think he could do it that way anymore.
total combat...total combat...total combat...
I like it. Better than "cross training"
egg-zactly... nicely said 4R!
"If we just got rid of these old definitions, opened our minds, and no longer viewed total combat as something that can be compartmentalized and approached by specialized methods, then maybe we won't look at it as "cross-training", but rather simple "fight training" (because that's what you're training for). "
Perhaps the most beautiful paragraph ever written on this forum.
Amen!
Guys:
I think that the problem with the notion of crosstraining is that we're all still thinking in terms of "STYLE."
In other words, cross-training is about training a "punching" style, alongside a "kicking" style, and (just to be street-effective), a "weapons" style and a "grappling" style.
If we just got rid of these old definitions, opened our minds, and no longer viewed total combat as something that can be compartmentalized and approached by specialized methods, then maybe we won't look at it as "cross-training", but rather simple "fight training" (because that's what you're training for).
Then you won't have to bother with such ridiculous questions as "should I have a base in one style before I cross-train?", because you're looking at fighting as a whole. If you were to get into an all out fight tomorrow, would you have to get the basics of one style from 7am to 12pm, then 1-3pm can be one style, and so on and so forth? heck no!! You'd train the whole day, addressing all the possibilities of combat in toto!
So please, guys, get rid of the notion of styles. Bruce said it over 30 years ago. And the man is right. That way, you won't have your mind so wrapped up in "getting proficient in one style, in order to move onto another" or "won't this style dilute my previous style" discussions.
Train for fighting as it is. And fighting, as it is, is not a matter of cross-training. It's a matter, simply, of fighting.
I agree. Learning what in essence is two arts or three
as one is good. You can learn what is pertinent to
nhb or realistic fighting. For example, it's not easy for people to learn a second language, it takes work.
I grew up speaking english and spanish. As a young boy, I didn't even know there was a difference. I think the same will happen to the fighting arts.
Another vote for total combat here,I think the problem
has always been that people are going to specialize and
when someone specializes people seek out that particular knowledge,as it stands right now there is very few gyms or schools that put it together smoothly
and efficiently,it's definitely not being marketed by many that way(not that I want it to be)but hopefully things are changing and the fighting arts will hopefully oneday be like they use to be originally.
I believe the practicioners or competitors on the cutting edge of total combat will be the ones exposed to this type of training and I kind of like it that way
because once it becomes marketable ,willy goes around in a circle again and gets watered down.
You have two choices. become very good in all ranges, or become good in all ranges and master one of them. The guy that gets good in all and masters one will be able to defend himself in all ranges enough to get to the range he has mastered and crush the guy that is very good in all but hasn't mastered anything. Defense is easier then offense. ;)
I quess the answer to total combat effectiveness is
to simplify,simplify and simplify some more.I guess I heard that some were before.
4 ranges hit it on the head. FANTASTIC.
it's all good has a very valid point. But then again,
when you train for total combat effectiveness, you will find that simplicity is needed.
Woof!
"Most of us do not go around with sticks and daggers handy."
uh...I do.
Alvis
Hound Dog!
www.solismartialarts.com
More on these points:
Read the article
"The Myth of CrossTraining" at www.wayofnoway.com
BASULTO ACADEMY OF DEFENSE
www.wayofnoway.com
"Woof!
"Most of us do not go around with sticks and daggers handy."
uh...I do."
Hehehe....make that the two of us.