Video that caused the cease and desist followed by what actually occured.
Report of Competition Injuries USFL Class B Pankration.
Feb 2011 – May 2013 (Does not include All Military or Tribal Class A Full Contact shows)
15 events (Single Bout Shows and Double elimination tournaments)
1319 Matches (Estimated) 1,059 Athletes (Estimated) (215 adults / 844 Youth)
59 Injuries Treated by on scene medical staff (20 adults / 39 Youth)
11 Injuries were recommended for follow up care (4 adults / 7 Youth)
2 Necks; 1 Concussion; 2 Shoulders; 1 Stomach; 1 Knee; 1 Calf; 1 Elbow; 1 Foot; 1 Chin (stitches) 1 Injury required Emergency Medical Transport (1 Adult/ Dislocated Elbow)
These are hard numbers from injury reports provided by Licensed Medical Professionals who serviced these events. Draw your own conclusions but we came up with less than 1% of participants requre any follow up medical care and fewer than 4% require any medical attention at all.
Captain Andy Foster...
I'd rather have my kid competing in MMA at a young age then involved in a full contact sport like hockey or American football.
Kids from the USFL punching their tickets at the world team qualifier for the 2013 FILA Cadet Junion World Championships in Split Croatia this August. They don't look like they are unhappy or wannabe thugs to me.
Bringing these events into complance means delegating athourity to and paying CAMO.........
MARC BULGER -Kirik -Kids should grapple and wrestle. There is no need for a five year old, or a ten year old, to be stepping into a cage to fight. If they parents are so into it, they should step in there.
Kids fight muay Thai all the time.
Exactly, kids also enjoy Karate, TKD and Boxing.
Why is it that these sports are fine until you combine them and remove all strikes above the collarbone, introduce injury time if someone gets the wind knocked out of them, prohibt "punishing" or scoring from striking more than 3 times from the same position? Now it becomes irresponsible, should be banned?? Is there a logical thought process behind these comments?
Kirik -
Kids should grapple and wrestle. There is no need for a five year old, or a ten year old, to be stepping into a cage to fight. If they parents are so into it, they should step in there.
I disagree.
Wrestling is FAR more dangerous than any striking sport where strikes to the head are banned. I saw some horrific injuries in youth wrestling when I was a kid. If little kids can get suplexed onto their skull, they should be allowed to get punched in the sternum.
Steve4192 -Kirik -
Kids should grapple and wrestle. There is no need for a five year old, or a ten year old, to be stepping into a cage to fight. If they parents are so into it, they should step in there.
I disagree.
Wrestling is FAR more dangerous than any striking sport where strikes to the head are banned. I saw some horrific injuries in youth wrestling when I was a kid. If little kids can get suplexed onto their skull, they should be allowed to get punched in the sternum.
You are 100% correct.
The potential for injury when strikes to the head are not allowed is much greater in submission grappling and from hard takedowns or throws than it is from striking. The younger kids are the lower the risk is from striking. A 5yr old kid is not going to break another 5yr olds rib with a hook to the body or a round kick but they are absolutely capable of dislocating an elbow, cranking a neck or causing serious injury from joint locks.
But kids events are OK if you pay CAMO thousands of dollars, only then do they become safe and appropriate.
Drewout - I am friends with Andy, I respect Andy & I respect Kirik.
Here are some facts though:
USA Boxing age for competition 8.
#1 Sport for injuries in America = Cheerleading.
Where I live I know Pee Wee tackle football starts at 8.
Here is my opinion:
In a controlled environment, no ground & pound, no knees, no elbows, essentially like the GA amateur rules that we have kids should be able to start competition somewhere between the age of 8-12.
What you think UG?
Anyone who lets their 8 year old box is either ignorant -- not an insult, but they're simply ignorant of biology and the scientific community's current understanding of brain trauma and child development -- or they should be shot...
I like to think anyone supporting that on the UG falls into the first category -- Unless I'm simply misinformed and there are no blows to the head at all, in which case it's hardly boxing.
I practiced Muay Thai for fun and didn't spar until my teens. Realistically, that was probably unhealthy too since you don't really stop development until you're out of adolescence, but I took it easy. To develop a competitive outlook and fighting when you're not even a teenager, I really just can't convey my disgust at that.
Also there is an important distinction with Cheerleading I can't believe so many people miss when they bring it up...
In cheerleading, people get hurt when things go wrong.
In fighting, people get hurt when things go right.
Take that as you will, but it's an important fact. Not to mention the scariest type of damage associated with fighting isn't immediate nor is it visible.
MattyECB -Drewout - I am friends with Andy, I respect Andy & I respect Kirik.
Here are some facts though:
USA Boxing age for competition 8.
#1 Sport for injuries in America = Cheerleading.
Where I live I know Pee Wee tackle football starts at 8.
Here is my opinion:
In a controlled environment, no ground & pound, no knees, no elbows, essentially like the GA amateur rules that we have kids should be able to start competition somewhere between the age of 8-12.
What you think UG?
Anyone who lets their 8 year old box is either ignorant -- not an insult, but they're simply ignorant of biology and the scientific community's current understanding of brain trauma and child development -- or they should be shot...
I like to think anyone supporting that on the UG falls into the first category -- Unless I'm simply misinformed and there are no blows to the head at all, in which case it's hardly boxing.
I practiced Muay Thai for fun and didn't spar until my teens. Realistically, that was probably unhealthy too since you don't really stop development until you're out of adolescence, but I took it easy. To develop a competitive outlook and fighting when you're not even a teenager, I really just can't convey my disgust at that.
So Matty, are you just referring to Boxing or are you also referring to the sport of Pankration where strikes above the collarbone are illegal and grounds for disqualification?
MattyECB - Also there is an important distinction with Cheerleading I can't believe so many people miss when they bring it up...
In cheerleading, people get hurt when things go wrong.
In fighting, people get hurt when things go right.
Take that as you will, but it's an important fact. Not to mention the scariest type of damage associated with fighting isn't immediate nor is it visible.
Matty, I think the key point is the underlying injury mechanics. If an 80lb girl gets thrown 8 feet in the air enough times something bad is going to happen whether intentional or not. Cheerleading is the #1 cause of catastrophic injury in young girls for that reason. Changes could be made that would eliminate those injury risks.
Little League baseball is a sport that uses a hard ball and aluminium bats. While pitchers may or may not intentionally hit a batter and batters may not intentionally hit an infielder with a line drive off an aluminium bat, both those situations occur with frequent tragic consequences.
All youth sports involve injury risks so sensible parents will balance those risks with their childs sports related passions.
If you review the rules for FILA Pankration you will note that no strikes are allowed above the collarbone. Furthermore they do not allow takedowns or slams that cause initial head impact, no head spiking. The rules are intended to minimize concussive and subconcussive brain injuries by prohibiting contact with the head.
So for the parents of kids who love martial arts, enjoy both grappling and striking and want to compete in the sport of Pankration the important assessment to make is what injury risks does the sport present and does it present any unique injury risks. The kids compete with padded golves and the striking risks are qualitiatively inversly proportional to the age of the competitors. As the competitors get older and their skill and strength and body weight increase the risk of injuries from strikes go up. As a parent if you are comfortable with the risks associated with striking to the body you won't have a problem with Pankration. The bigger injury risks IMO come from big takedowns and submissions. Parents who are willing to accept the injury risks presented by wrestling and submission grappling shouldn't have a problem with Pankration.
When comparing Pankration to other sports like Hockey and Football injury risks are further mitigated by weight classes. If you kid is playing football he might get run over by a kid that weighs 100lbs more than him, in my experience injury risks go way up when there is a large weight difference between athletes in contact sports.
MMA, Boxing & Muay Thai may use "damage" to your opponent as a criteria for scoring but Pankration expressly forbids employing techniques intended to injure your opponent. In Pankration people don't get hurt when things go right. It's an international sport under FILA and the rules are designed to make it a safe and fun sport for youth athletes. http://www.fila-official.com/
I would never claim that Pankration is free from injury risk. However in the 12 years that the league that my kids have competed in has been hosting competition there have been no serious injuries. In that same time period there have been several deaths in baseball and many cheerleaders have suffered catastrophic spinal and head injuries.
This pretty much sums up the CSAC meeting last week!!!