Dan Hardy gets purple belt from Eddie Bravo (vid)

JoejitsuMD - While I think belts as a ranking for a nogi system are silly, I find it the most frustrating that most people think these are BJJ belts/ranks. Like a purple "belt" in 10th Planet JJ has a similar skill level to a BJJ purple belt. I wish it was more clearly explained to people so they were not given that assumption.


Uh... yea have you been to many grappling tourneys?



There is always a fairly large desparity over guys at belt levels.  There is just as big of an ability gap in both gi and no-gi.   Just about every tourney I've ever gone to I've seen blues, purples, and browns who's talent level isn't up to the average of that rank.  Just about every tourney I also see a guy still a blue or a purple that's obviously able to compete legitimately at brown or black if not dominate most of the competitors.



Now if you want to say that belts are simply the subjective opinion of one guy about a grappler he's training...thats more than fair, but seriously don't pretend a belt is anything more than that. 

Ryan MacLeod - I know Eddie has developed a no-gi JJ system, but are his belts recognized by gi professors?


 Do they compete well in competition?



If so, then it doesn't matter if they are recognized in ceremony, they will be recognized in victory.

 No idea.



I don't have a belt, I train with a bunch of guys who all train in the gi, but I do not....I don't plan on it anytime soon either.  I think plenty of schools at this point would appreciate a student that wants to compete and train hard, but doesn't want to do that in a gi.  I know plenty still don't unfortunately.

im a brown belt from eddie, and i have a couple of opinions.

first, our guys win at tournaments, so if you question the strength of our team, you can go to the us open check us out. about twenty of our guys should be competing.

second, i would not wear a brown belt in the gi. the last belt i had was a blue belt with a bunch of stripes, so i would probably wear that. why? cause gi is so different from no gi that they dont translate all that well, especially going from no gi to gi with all the grip fights. its like a judo bb wearing his bb at a bjj class.

That being said, a couple of our purple belts went to marcelo's and he made them wear a purple belt stating that it was disrespectful not to. so there are differing opinions on it.

as for me, i could care less about how i rank in the gi. i never plan to wear one again and i think that is the opinion of most of our guys.

This is almost as silly as giving out black belts in Muaythai,even thou muaythai has never had anything to do with the karate ranking system. Over time everything get lost in a time warp and eventualy black belts in muaythai become the norm and accepted requirement.

fair enough ryan, i think of it as two sports. that being said, i think i would do well in the gi.

checkuroil- Seems like the entire team has a black belt in awesome hair do's.

 Congrats on what must have been a difficult acheivement.

CavemanDave -  I don't have a belt, I train with a bunch of guys who all train in the gi, but I do not....I don't plan on it anytime soon either.  I think plenty of schools at this point would appreciate a student that wants to compete and train hard, but doesn't want to do that in a gi.  I know plenty still don't unfortunately.

Please don't take this the wrong way... I'm honestly asking for your opinion and to educate me here.  What is there to "appreciate" about someone insisting on not doing gi?  Again, I don't mean that it should NOT be appreciated... but why so as apposed to someone who also  wants to train hard and compete, plus train gi?  Is it more of an acheivement to do all those things without  training gi than with?  

 

CavemanDave -  No idea.



I don't have a belt, I train with a bunch of guys who all train in the gi, but I do not....I don't plan on it anytime soon either.  I think plenty of schools at this point would appreciate a student that wants to compete and train hard, but doesn't want to do that in a gi.  I know plenty still don't unfortunately.



Most gi instructors firmly beleive in the gi as a training tool.  If you want to ignore your instructors advice, why have an instructor?

My purple belts don't know collar chokes, back of the jacket control, spider guard, and sleeve control/chokes. So my purple belts would not be up to speed with traditional bjj purples IN THE GI.

But my purples know how to set up the truck from side control, which leads you to many submissions, including calf crank, banana split, crouch ripper, scissors, the twister, and the transitioning from the truck to the back. My purples can also transition from the back to the truck.

My purples know lockdown half guard sweeps like the electric chair, stoner control sweep/vaporizor, twist back, etc.

My purples can go thru the main path of the rubber guard with the options as well, including invisible collar, the carni, the croc series, the DA etc.

10th planet jiu jitsu is a different system than traditional bjj.

99% of bjj black belts couldn't teach a 10th Planet seminar, but that doesn't mean that 10th Planet purples are better than bjj purples, it just means they are 2 different styles of strangulation and joint destruction.

Just ask bjj black belts Vinny Magalaes(Royler Gracie), George Sotiropoulos(Machado), Jorge Oliviera(Barra Gracie) and Keith Owen(Pedro Sauer). They are all currently adding the 10thpjj system to their arsenal and are working to get their black belt in the system as well.

BJJ=Judo
10pj=Greco :)

CONGRATS DAN HARDY!!!!

Nice points Eddie. I think you summed it up quite nicely. I do believe though that if you want to be the best arm breaker/throat choaker that you can be, you have to welcome a variety of successful styles into your training. My guess is the best combination for most people is a combination of both gi and no gi.

So, why not train both?

btw eddie, don't you think you learn more from gi training than what you gave it credit. I know direct techniques are the obvious ones that you mentioned like collar chokes. Do you really think that is all the gi has to offer over the straight no gi?

Photobucket

greg jackson gives out his own belts

not this shit again......

Prepare2Die - Nice points Eddie. I think you summed it up quite nicely. I do believe though that if you want to be the best arm breaker/throat choaker that you can be, you have to welcome a variety of successful styles into your training. My guess is the best combination for most people is a combination of both gi and no gi.



So, why not train both?
When all the greco roman Olympians striving for the gold in the Olympics train both then I will bring back the gi for my students sake.



Marcelo is very good with the gi, but he doesn't separate from the pack in the gi like he does no-gi. In no-gi he is the supreme god. Think about the gi gods in the game over the last 10 years. Think of their names. Think of the ones that were KIngs in the gi but for some reason it never translated to ADCC. Forget about the few that did make the transition beautifully like Roger, Jacare, and of course the no-gi Jesus, Marcelo. Forget about them for just one second. Think about all the other amazing multiple time Mundial champions out there that never did much no-gi.



Why is that? Why is there so many?



Why does Marcelo do so much better no-gi than gi? Again, I know he has won the mundials a few times but I can think of a few guys that had unbelievable dominating reigns that eclipse what Marcelo has done with the gi.

But when it comes to no-gi, Marcelo is light years ahead of them. Why?



The answer is that, like all greco roman wrestlers, Marcelo understands that the clinch must be mastered. The clinch in every position must be mastered. Just like the plum clinch in Muay Thai, he who has the most polished plum clinch lands more knees.



Marcelo works on his clinch on a daily basis, clinching medicine balls, and clinching the over/under control while riding on dudes backs. He clinches and rides and works on his clinching endurance without even going for the choke. He'll ride and clinch for a few minutes working on his squeezing endurance before securing the choke. He understands that every different no gi position requires a different clinch to be mastered there. I know Marcelo, I am not talking out of my ass.



Marcelo is the no-gi god because he has a stronger, tighter, harder clinch than any other bjj player on the planet. Clinching and squeezing while moving into scoring position and clincing and squeezing while choking someone out. In no-gi grappling, it's all about how powerful your squeeze is.



To be super offensive no-gi you must develope your clinches AND master all clinches. Every second you train with the gi you are not training your clinch. You are training your yank and pull. Totally different. Totally different muscles, totally different base. If you want to get offensive in no-gi like Marcelo, then when are you working on your clinch? Unless you train no-gi grips with the gi on like some do, you are not working your clinch if you are grabbing the gi.



But you don't need to develope your clinch for defense. You need to develope pushing explosion for defense, which you can get from gi training but you also get that from no-gi training as well. That's why gi guys with no clinch are still very hard to finish in no-gi competition. Explosiveness, posture and core strength are more important for defense than developing a clinch.



Every time you train in the gi and set up a submission while yanking on collars and sleeves you are not working on your clinch, it's that simple.



When I get into these gi/no-gi debates, it always ends up with the gi people never giving me specific explanations of how the gi makes your nogi game "tighter". All they end up saying is, "Roger, Marcelo and Jacare train in the gi so I'm gonna train in the gi", no break downs like the ones I'm giving. I am giving you detailed explanations and anaolgies, but all I get in return is,"But you trained in the gi!" and stuff like that.



Machida, Anderson, and GSP all have black belts in Karate or TKD, does that mean that all mma fighters should start training Karate? Most submission fiends all came from the gi, that's all there was in the 90's. If you were fascinated by chokes and breaking limbs, you had to put a gi on. Even now, most schools that specialize in submissions make you wear a gi.



And the "What about defense?" arguement. Well, yes , it's harder to explode out of submissions with a gi, so you are working your defensive explosiveness but how do you defend leg locks with a gi? The answer is hold on to your opponent's collar. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"



How do you defend kimura's in the gi? The answer is grab on to your pants. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"



How do you defend against arm bars? The answer is hold on to your own collar. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"



How do you defend against rear naked chokes? The answer is cross your wrists under your chin and hold on to both your collars. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"



Even when you're on top caught in a triangle, a very popular escape is to grab your opponent's collar and push it down across his neck while stacking him. How does that make your no-gi defense better again?



Judo and Greco have the same goal, throw your opponent. Judo with yanking and pulling the gi, Greco with clinching and squeezing overhooks and underhooks.



Bjj and sub grappling have the same goal, pass guard and submit. BJJ with yanking and pulling the gi, sub grappling with clinching and squeezing overhooks and underhooks. That's it, I can't put it into simpler terms.



I am not saying only train no-gi, and that the gi sucks. The gi is fun for many people. If you like both train both, it's all sooo good.



All I'm saying is that the gi does not make you no-gi "tighter", it makes you better in the gi, that's it. The fact that a dude who has trained in a gi for years and one day decides to take it off and it turns out he's got game no-gi does not prove that the gi makes your no-gi game tighter. A tennis champion can hop over to raquetball and be pretty damn good from day 1, but that doesn't mean that all aspiring raquetball players should play tennis first to tighten up their game?



Most kickboxers in the 70's came from TKD, Karate, and Kung fu, does that mean that if you want to be a kickboxing champion you have to take TKD first? That's what they thought back then, but now we know that theory is no longer relavent.



Gi training does not make your no-gi tighter, it actually makes it looser. Watch ADCC 2003 and count how many times top bjj legends lost back control. It's like  40 times. It's quite incredible how many times these bjj superstars couldn't stay on anyone's back.



Then check how many times Marcelo has lost back control in his entire ADCC career, I think it's like twice. Diego Sanchez is the only dude I can remember escaping from Marcelo's back clinch, but it could've happend one or 2 more times. And that was before Diego decided to train in the gi, he was a pure no-gi guy. Imagine that. One of the only guys to ever escape Marcelo's back control DIDN'T come from a gi back ground. Hmmm.



If all this clinch talk is confusing you and you're not even sure what to make of it or if you should believe me, ask your instructor what he thinks about developing no-gi clinches. You never know, he might have a clinch developing system just like Marcelo's :)

        

hmmm....

EddieBravo - 
Prepare2Die - Nice points Eddie. I think you summed it up quite nicely. I do believe though that if you want to be the best arm breaker/throat choaker that you can be, you have to welcome a variety of successful styles into your training. My guess is the best combination for most people is a combination of both gi and no gi.

So, why not train both?
When all the greco roman Olympians striving for the gold in the Olympics train both then I will bring back the gi for my students sake.

Marcelo is very good with the gi, but he doesn't separate from the pack in the gi like he does no-gi. In no-gi he is the supreme god. Think about the gi gods in the game over the last 10 years. Think of their names. Think of the ones that were KIngs in the gi but for some reason it never translated to ADCC. Forget about the few that did make the transition beautifully like Roger, Jacare, and of course the no-gi Jesus, Marcelo. Forget about them for just one second. Think about all the other amazing multiple time Mundial champions out there that never did much no-gi.

Why is that? Why is there so many?

Why does Marcelo do so much better no-gi than gi? Again, I know he has won the mundials a few times but I can think of a few guys that had unbelievable dominating reigns that eclipse what Marcelo has done with the gi.
But when it comes to no-gi, Marcelo is light years ahead of them. Why?

The answer is that, like all greco roman wrestlers, Marcelo understands that the clinch must be mastered. The clinch in every position must be mastered. Just like the plum clinch in Muay Thai, he who has the most polished plum clinch lands more knees.

Marcelo works on his clinch on a daily basis, clinching medicine balls, and clinching the over/under control while riding on dudes backs. He clinches and rides and works on his clinching endurance without even going for the choke. He'll ride and clinch for a few minutes working on his squeezing endurance before securing the choke. He understands that every different no gi position requires a different clinch to be mastered there. I know Marcelo, I am not talking out of my ass.

Marcelo is the no-gi god because he has a stronger, tighter, harder clinch than any other bjj player on the planet. Clinching and squeezing while moving into scoring position and clincing and squeezing while choking someone out. In no-gi grappling, it's all about how powerful your squeeze is.

To be super offensive no-gi you must develope your clinches AND master all clinches. Every second you train with the gi you are not training your clinch. You are training your yank and pull. Totally different. Totally different muscles, totally different base. If you want to get offensive in no-gi like Marcelo, then when are you working on your clinch? Unless you train no-gi grips with the gi on like some do, you are not working your clinch if you are grabbing the gi.

But you don't need to develope your clinch for defense. You need to develope pushing explosion for defense, which you can get from gi training but you also get that from no-gi training as well. That's why gi guys with no clinch are still very hard to finish in no-gi competition. Explosiveness, posture and core strength are more important for defense than developing a clinch.

Every time you train in the gi and set up a submission while yanking on collars and sleeves you are not working on your clinch, it's that simple.

When I get into these gi/no-gi debates, it always ends up with the gi people never giving me specific explanations of how the gi makes your nogi game "tighter". All they end up saying is, "Roger, Marcelo and Jacare train in the gi so I'm gonna train in the gi", no break downs like the ones I'm giving. I am giving you detailed explanations and anaolgies, but all I get in return is,"But you trained in the gi!" and stuff like that.

Machida, Anderson, and GSP all have black belts in Karate or TKD, does that mean that all mma fighters should start training Karate? Most submission fiends all came from the gi, that's all there was in the 90's. If you were fascinated by chokes and breaking limbs, you had to put a gi on. Even now, most schools that specialize in submissions make you wear a gi.

And the "What about defense?" arguement. Well, yes , it's harder to explode out of submissions with a gi, so you are working your defensive explosiveness but how do you defend leg locks with a gi? The answer is hold on to your opponent's collar. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"

How do you defend kimura's in the gi? The answer is grab on to your pants. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"

How do you defend against arm bars? The answer is hold on to your own collar. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"

How do you defend against rear naked chokes? The answer is cross your wrists under your chin and hold on to both your collars. How does that make your no-gi game "tighter?"

Even when you're on top caught in a triangle, a very popular escape is to grab your opponent's collar and push it down across his neck while stacking him. How does that make your no-gi defense better again?

Judo and Greco have the same goal, throw your opponent. Judo with yanking and pulling the gi, Greco with clinching and squeezing overhooks and underhooks.

Bjj and sub grappling have the same goal, pass guard and submit. BJJ with yanking and pulling the gi, sub grappling with clinching and squeezing overhooks and underhooks. That's it, I can't put it into simpler terms.

I am not saying only train no-gi, and that the gi sucks. The gi is fun for many people. If you like both train both, it's all sooo good.

All I'm saying is that the gi does not make you no-gi "tighter", it makes you better in the gi, that's it. The fact that a dude who has trained in a gi for years and one day decides to take it off and it turns out he's got game no-gi does not prove that the gi makes your no-gi game tighter. A tennis champion can hop over to raquetball and be pretty damn good from day 1, but that doesn't mean that all aspiring raquetball players should play tennis first to tighten up their game?

Most kickboxers in the 70's came from TKD, Karate, and Kung fu, does that mean that if you want to be a kickboxing champion you have to take TKD first? That's what they thought back then, but now we know that theory is no longer relavent.

Gi training does not make your no-gi tighter, it actually makes it looser. Watch ADCC 2003 and count how many times top bjj legends lost back control. It's like  40 times. It's quite incredible how many times these bjj superstars couldn't stay on anyone's back.

Then check how many times Marcelo has lost back control in his entire ADCC career, I think it's like twice. Diego Sanchez is the only dude I can remember escaping from Marcelo's back clinch, but it could've happend one or 2 more times. And that was before Diego decided to train in the gi, he was a pure no-gi guy. Imagine that. One of the only guys to ever escape Marcelo's back control DIDN'T come from a gi back ground. Hmmm.

If all this clinch talk is confusing you and you're not even sure what to make of it or if you should believe me, ask your instructor what he thinks about developing no-gi clinches. You never know, he might have a clinch developing system just like Marcelo's :)
        


So, is it required to have a silly hair cut at 10th Planet?

EddieBravo, thank you for the details. That was a really interesting read even to someone like me who has never trained or grappled but is a huge fan of MMA and JJ.

PS: You look like that guy in Fast Times At Ridgemont High who sold concert tickets ha ha ;)

xoxo