Well, FS1 is basically brand new and still trying to gain a foothold on the sports new market. It will take time before they gain ground. I do know this; There are a lot of sports fans (not MMA, but the big 4) who are tired of ESPN's way of harping on the same old news cycle, whatever it is that's the flavor of the month. Those same sports fans are fed up with ESPN's way of doing things and are desperate for a change. Why they haven't jumped ship to FS1 is anyone's guess. Big Fox has excellent coverage of NFL, and a lot of those same sports fans tune in to watch Big Fox, but for whatever reason they've yet to jump on FS1.
And here's one of my biggest gripes with MMA fans. You basically have two thought processes.
1: They don't have/aren't making enough stars
2: They're running too many shows/over saturating the market
Well, in order to make new stars, they have to run more shows, showcasing more talent. I don't buy the line of thinking of "Cards are watered down, they've all been boring". I've watched 95% of the cards this year, the exception being the fight pass cards (I don't have fight pass). And out of all the cards I've seen, I can honestly say only three were bad. UFC 177, UFC Fight Night
Bader vs. Saint Preux, and UFC Fight Night Shogun vs. Saint Preux. Shogun v Saint Preux fight was decent, and some of the undercard and one or two fights on the main card were watchable. But of this entire year, that's literally the only cards that did nothing for me.
And it's usually the cards where everyone pans it before it happens that turn out to be excellent cards.
But like I was saying, in order to create new stars, they have to put on enough cards to showcase the talent. And even then, it's up to the fighters to fight. To put on a show and show the world what they're capable of. UFC can't make them fight.
Mertvaya Ruka -ChaosOverkill -Mertvaya Ruka -Mr Bungle - I wonder how many of these people like the guy above who said he can do without Dana blah blah blah are some of the same people who were saying Bjorn Rebney would be the savior of MMA and praised him as such. Those same people that said Bjorn treats his fighters better than Dana.<br /> <span class="User-307987" id="userPost51706097">lol, I never backed Rebney and always found him repulsive. I'm not "Bellator Fan" or the 2 other guys who supported him.<br /> <br /> The last straw for me with DFW is how he shat all over GSP. Dana even appeared on Canadian media right after that, he couldn't even apologize, he played it off like it was a "miscommunication".<br /> <br /> He made his bed, I'm sure I'm not the only one feeling that way.</span></blockquote>
Yeah pretty much this, if he had apologized and just admit he reacts poorly as a huge fan of his own product and the type of personality he has it would have mended some of the problem he created but he was steadfast that he did no wrong, tried to orchestrate nothing and that GSP was part of the problem. It was absurd.
Yeah, I was truly hoping he would apologize and put an end to this. I was once a DFW supporter but he's made it impossible for me to continue and it only got worse and worse since then, he's made a ton of bad calls since then. (High, Askren, Diaz, Melendez, "fuck you and your dollar", appearing in interviews and basically telling the fans to go fuck themselves and so on)
Yep. I was a big fan post TUF, I thought he might be able to balance the emotion and promotion, but he just couldn't and got offended when people turned on him for it.
Mr Bungle - Well, FS1 is basically brand new and still trying to gain a foothold on the sports new market. It will take time before they gain ground. I do know this; There are a lot of sports fans (not MMA, but the big 4) who are tired of ESPN's way of harping on the same old news cycle, whatever it is that's the flavor of the month. Those same sports fans are fed up with ESPN's way of doing things and are desperate for a change. Why they haven't jumped ship to FS1 is anyone's guess. Big Fox has excellent coverage of NFL, and a lot of those same sports fans tune in to watch Big Fox, but for whatever reason they've yet to jump on FS1.
And here's one of my biggest gripes with MMA fans. You basically have two thought processes.
1: They don't have/aren't making enough stars
2: They're running too many shows/over saturating the market
Well, in order to make new stars, they have to run more shows, showcasing more talent. I don't buy the line of thinking of "Cards are watered down, they've all been boring". I've watched 95% of the cards this year, the exception being the fight pass cards (I don't have fight pass). And out of all the cards I've seen, I can honestly say only three were bad. UFC 177, UFC Fight Night
Bader vs. Saint Preux, and UFC Fight Night Shogun vs. Saint Preux. Shogun v Saint Preux fight was decent, and some of the undercard and one or two fights on the main card were watchable. But of this entire year, that's literally the only cards that did nothing for me.
And it's usually the cards where everyone pans it before it happens that turn out to be excellent cards.
But like I was saying, in order to create new stars, they have to put on enough cards to showcase the talent. And even then, it's up to the fighters to fight. To put on a show and show the world what they're capable of. UFC can't make them fight.
I don't think more shows is the only way to build more stars. That's why, despite yes ESPN being stale but the only game that big in town, making a deal with them benefits your sport. They hammer your sport into houses and put your stars into their other shows and products, they start to connect atheletes to the average lazy person that want spoon fed sport.
If all you do is make more events with fights that don't have a better built marketing scope you're not gaining anything unless the fighter wins by spectacular stoppage every time. When is was new, more exposure was needed, but it hits a point where the elements of the sport being discovered are a very short list and it's still not working like a Pettis running off a cage like a ninja, it's not having the effect it should. Look if they haven't made a UFC ninja close to the star he should be. They couldn't sell out his hometown for a title fight and people turned on him for an injury instead of just giving a superstar time to heal and being anxious for his return. THe formula needs to change. If people aren't naturally hungry for the sport in north American and when people see all the sport has to offer, they need a new level of social marketing to find the audience that thrives on it. The people that watch all major sports for reasons other than just game time. Yes, to hardcores those people suck, but they are a revenue boom because they are superficial people that want to buy trendy products. You're free to see more events as a solution, I don't their business model has to change, and what has to change is a media partner that can catapult them and give them the avenues to fill with content aside from fighting. They can't change the fighting any more the rules are what they are, the styles are what they. what remains is relativity in the social hierarchy and trendyness scale. ESPN is the only place that works hard enough as a partner and has the built in audience to provide it. MAYBE NBC sports.
That's just how I see it. You need to take the existing highlight reels or build some with fighters that provide them, which is only needed to be 3-4 times a year which they were doing before the slow down and more events doesn't fix, and put those fighters and their highlight reels in all the places ESPN can. Short of that Causals will always see a giant roster getting bigger as a sea where rising stars will drown in, by overloading them with content they don't understand or respond to as well as a hardcore does, who doesn't provide the level of earnings you need to keep growing. Hardcores are limited, the only way to make more is to turn casuals into them the way to do that is like what Fantasy Football did to casuals to turn them into hardcores.
You're probably right about partnering with ESPN, that would be a huge boost in terms of who pays attention and who doesn't. No one is better at cramming a sport down people's throats than ESPN.
I think the UFC is thinking globally right now, willing to sacrifice some of the gains they made in N.America in order to "be the first" all over the rest of the world. Problem is, even ONE FC seems to be having a hard time putting on events in Asia, which is one of the UFC's biggest targets. They've done pretty well around the rest of the globe, but Asia looks like it will be a tough nut to crack.
You make some great points man. Thanks.
Mr Bungle - You're probably right about partnering with ESPN, that would be a huge boost in terms of who pays attention and who doesn't. No one is better at cramming a sport down people's throats than ESPN.
I think the UFC is thinking globally right now, willing to sacrifice some of the gains they made in N.America in order to "be the first" all over the rest of the world. Problem is, even ONE FC seems to be having a hard time putting on events in Asia, which is one of the UFC's biggest targets. They've done pretty well around the rest of the globe, but Asia looks like it will be a tough nut to crack.
You make some great points man. Thanks.
No problem thanks for the chat.
and I'll put it this way, casuals need to know why the way someone fights, or why certain fighters are special or why something that happens is special and giving them more content is not how that happens, they need a connecting method to take them by the hand and involve them in part of the sport like fantasy football did for people, which is an extension of gambling.
Now I'm not really sure what the method could be for fighting that is like fantasy football, but yeah someone like ESPN would be a good start and working from there becasue they would provide the platform to create the method that will stay operational and maintained globally. The problem with going global without a support strategy for casuals is, eventually, except in some places where it is cultural like BRazil, which still hasn't worked for Japan in the long run, is eventually the same thing will happen with casuals in the other countries. IT happened in Canada for the same reason and I'm sure the UK is suffering similarly.
You need a glue a compelling connector that makes MMA watching a game unto itself.
And this is one of the reasons why I want Dana to come back and interact with us more. He needs to listen to fans like you who make some pretty level headed and easy to understand points. He's capable of doing what the fans ask, he's done so in the past. But being non existent when he used to be here, there, and everywhere isn't doing the UFC any favors. If he'd be willing to accept constructive criticism, and listen to what some fans are honestly saying, take it for what it's worth and try to implement some of their ideas, then hopefully it leads to some changes.
First thing that has to happen is that godawful theme song has to go. I know they own the rights to it, but come on. Nu Metal hasn't been popular since 2008. I'm not a Hip Hop fan in the least, but they just worked with Swizz Beatz on the Reebok deal. Have him create a new theme song. Or get him to source something out to some up and comer. I'd be happy with something powerful like Lux Aeterna by Clint Mansell, something in that Classical vein that is pure emotion. People who have seen that video with that song and Cro Cop highlights know what I'm talking about. That's a powerful song, with the right visuals. Obviously there are other changes that need to happen.
ChaosOverkill -
and I'll put it this way, casuals need to know why the way someone fights, or why certain fighters are special or why something that happens is special and giving them more content is not how that happens, they need a connecting method to take them by the hand and involve them in part of the sport like fantasy football did for people, which is an extension of gambling.
Now I'm not really sure what the method could be for fighting that is like fantasy football, but yeah someone like ESPN would be a good start and working from there becasue they would provide the platform to create the method that will stay operational and maintained globally. The problem with going global without a support strategy for casuals is, eventually, except in some places where it is cultural like BRazil, which still hasn't worked for Japan in the long run, is eventually the same thing will happen with casuals in the other countries. IT happened in Canada for the same reason and I'm sure the UK is suffering similarly.
You need a glue a compelling connector that makes MMA watching a game unto itself.
They already have a method of drawing in people, and showcasing what the fighters are about, who they are. Embedded started out strong, the first few series they did got me excited for once, at a time when I thought I'd seen it all and nothing new was enticing enough, other than the fight itself. But Embedded has fallen off these past few shows. They need more content like that, capable of appealing to the common man/casual fans. Think of those short series that ESPN does, not sure what they're called, but they're narrated by one of their main reporters, and it's always something that shows the athlete in a different light than what most sports fans are used to seeing. It's usually something that deals with the human side, the emotional side of the athlete, something that touches on a serious subject like a relationship a certain athlete might have with some disabled kid. Something like that. They need content like that to grab people attention and show the rest of the sports world that Mixed Martial Artists aren't thugs, but rather serious, sometimes emotional guys with difficult life stories. A lot of these guys either went on to have a great early career in College Wrestling, which usually makes a man out of someone pretty quick, or some of them grew up in a tough household, yet went on to make something of themselves in college or thru the Martial Arts itself.
Mr Bungle -ChaosOverkill -and I'll put it this way, casuals need to know why the way someone fights, or why certain fighters are special or why something that happens is special and giving them more content is not how that happens, they need a connecting method to take them by the hand and involve them in part of the sport like fantasy football did for people, which is an extension of gambling.
Now I'm not really sure what the method could be for fighting that is like fantasy football, but yeah someone like ESPN would be a good start and working from there becasue they would provide the platform to create the method that will stay operational and maintained globally. The problem with going global without a support strategy for casuals is, eventually, except in some places where it is cultural like BRazil, which still hasn't worked for Japan in the long run, is eventually the same thing will happen with casuals in the other countries. IT happened in Canada for the same reason and I'm sure the UK is suffering similarly.
You need a glue a compelling connector that makes MMA watching a game unto itself.
<br /> <span class="User-270591" id="userPost51706650">They already have a method of drawing in people, and showcasing what the fighters are about, who they are. Embedded started out strong, the first few series they did got me excited for once, at a time when I thought I'd seen it all and nothing new was enticing enough, other than the fight itself. But Embedded has fallen off these past few shows. They need more content like that, capable of appealing to the common man/casual fans. Think of those short series that ESPN does, not sure what they're called, but they're narrated by one of their main reporters, and it's always something that shows the athlete in a different light than what most sports fans are used to seeing. It's usually something that deals with the human side, the emotional side of the athlete, something that touches on a serious subject like a relationship a certain athlete might have with some disabled kid. Something like that. They need content like that to grab people attention and show the rest of the sports world that Mixed Martial Artists aren't thugs, but rather serious, sometimes emotional guys with difficult life stories. A lot of these guys either went on to have a great early career in College Wrestling, which usually makes a man out of someone pretty quick, or some of them grew up in a tough household, yet went on to make something of themselves in college or thru the Martial Arts itself.</span></blockquote>
Embedded's are good, but even providing that to casuals isn't enough, like I mean with Fantasy Football people want a competition within the competition that isn't all the way gambling. You could have some sort of fantasy fighter system but it's very hard with the injuries and non-team aspect, but that's what missing to me that all the major sports have, and yeah they are team based which makes it easier. They have a downtime management system where people gather and obsess over playing "Sim General Manager".
Something like Nascar has a cultural stamp, that's the other way like I was saying, the events have this built in, noise, beer and gasoline aspect that is ritualistic. The UFC lacks this stuff unfortunately as they deal with different variables, but they need to find and concentrate on these things along with upping the broadcast quality of everything, starting with yeah, NO MORE FACE THE PAIN!
Casual gambling is what I would parallel Fantasy Football between it and Hardcore betting. Just like hardcore fan and casual fan, they each are willing to commit to different levels of involvement and risk and need different levels of extra curricular programming or "management" of watching and being a fan of the sport.
Mr Bungle -ChaosOverkill -Mr Bungle - But seriously, when was the last time he came here. This place is for the fans, not the media, yet he doesn't even come here anymore. I'm certain he lurks, or has someone trawling thru all the bullshit that gets posted.
It's connected enough that what he says here will get picked up on, plus Calo trolled him a couple of times with convincing trolls that got him banned where he convinced people Dana had said something or done saomething he hadn't. That was the straw that broke the camels back and you won't stop guys like Calo from pdoing that stuff because really Dana unfortunately is his own worst enemy when he lets full emotion dictate his reactions.
If he was able to stop throwing fighters under the bus it would been enough IMO, but with GSP he crossed a line that set a new low bar for opinion on him. It's one thing to toss midcarders or prelim fighters like that, but your champ, it's going to have an echo for a while.
I wasn't aware of the stuff you're speaking about with Calo. I've seen him here but don't know a thing about him.
And the stuff with GSP, that obviously bothered the fans more than it bothered GSP. GSP isn't one to hold back his emotions or his tongue.
Here's the thing about Dana, he's brutally honest and he's a human being, on top of being the President of the largest MMA organization in the world. With that comes a ton of pressure. His brutal honesty sometimes gets in the way of common decency and he does things he probably shouldn't do. I'm willing to be he regrets doing that to GSP, but I'm also willing to be he and GSP have already worked that entire thing out and have found some common ground.
The thing youre not talking about is how full of shit Dana can be and how ofter he throws his fighters under the bus. Dana will openly criticize other organizations and boxing for doing shady shit, yet he does the same thing with the UFC and when he gets called on it he freaks out like a child.
Now the "media" he allows is so neutered they dont ask the tough questions. Ariel used to get great info/scoops.... when was the last time that happened? Dana said Askren needs to prove himself before being signed yet CM Punk (I assume thats not his real name) was just signed. Media cant ask him about that because theyre afraid of losing their credentials.
There was a rumor that Hendricks was an hour late to the weigh ins and needed a wheelchair to get around..... not one media memeber asked about this and the thread I posted in yesterday is gone.
"Well, in order to make new stars, they have to run more shows, showcasing more talent. I don't buy the line of thinking of "Cards are watered down, they've all been boring""
They absolutely are watering down cards which makes PPVs nothing special at all. Why are guys like Gus, Moussasi, Bisping, Rockhold, Machida etc. on fightpass/FS1 cards (usually at odd hours)? They should be on PPVs so people buy them and its something special. When the UFC had 1/3rd the amount of shows there were more stars because everyone knew the PPV would have guys like Chuck, Randy, Tito, Hughes, Penn etc.
He stopped doing the scrims when the UFC had a downloadable video of Dana discussing topics and fighter and all that other buschwa 
Mr Bungle - But seriously, when was the last time he came here. This place is for the fans, not the media, yet he doesn't even come here anymore. I'm certain he lurks, or has someone trawling thru all the bullshit that gets posted.Think last time he was here he gave us that awesome Saku interview