Dana White is partly right abour Fedor

Fedor was overated. He beat a numer of very good fighters, and was legitimately ranked the #1 HW in the world. But he never faced top competition consistently after winning his title, and he fought the #2 HW ranked in the world thrice in all these years: a remath with Nog, Mirko, and Arlovski. Besides that, Sylvia perhaps excepting, he fought no top 5 fighters in the world. Some of the ones that were ranked were so for unfit reasons: Randleman, Hunt and Rogers over Mirko and Arlovski. But they were widely known to be mediocre fighters, and anyone who denies this is in complete denial themselves.

Fedor was and still is a very good fighter with high chances against a good chunk of the top ranked HW's and LHW's in the world. He would beat Brock, I think, and probably Carwin too. I think a rematch with Werdum should favor him still, and I would pick him against Barnett as well. A fight with Sergei would be explosive, and could go either way. I think fights with Mir, Cain, JDS, Overeem, Schaub (yes, he is better than people think) and Bigfoot are not his to win. He could beat Mir and Schaub, but I think those would be difficult fights anyhow. The others I think would defeat Fedor soundly. I think some currently unraked fighters like Del Rosario or Johnston could be difficult fights given their wrestling and heavy hands. At LHW I think he would also have mixed results, potentially a lot worse than at HW. I think he would beat Shogun, maybe Machida, Ortiz and others. A fight with Rampage could be close, or with Mousassi. and I would perhaps favor Fedor, But I would pick Bones, Rashad, Davis over him. And I would pick Henderson again against Fedor (yes, I picked him the first time around, by KO in the first)

This has nothing to do with him falling out of his prime, I believe. Fedor was overated; he was a great fighter and still is. It is those who think he is 'finished' who are both underrating and overrating him. They are conveniently overrating him holding him against a standard of illusory greatness so that his last losses are the result of him not being the same fighter. It is a way of saying "The Fedor that lost these fights is not the same that dominated all these years in his prime!". It's an alternative or complement to citing unfair doctor stoppages and grueling years of fighting as support for Fedor's degradation. It is a way to say that the fighter who now lived in memory, the Fedor of prime times, never really lost. And they will camouflage this inanity with all sorts of pseudo-objective arguments concerning the obvious degradation coming with age, the sloppier ways of recent Fedor, how he has shrunk in size, et al. Some will cite that Fedor had used his sloppier overwhelming attempts in more intelligent contexts before.

It is true that overwhelming can be the correct gameplan, but Fedor also used that gameplan incorrectly before. For example against Coleman for the first time he threw himself violently and immediatly got reversed on the clinch and taken down. That he managed to submit Mark later is well besides the point; that was not the gameplan, and it was fairly poor execution. Against Hunt, he took a massive risk which ended with him on the bottom trying to outmusle in the upper body clinch the huge Hunt. He gassed quickly as a result and compromised position; he should have attacked the legs. But that has never been within his arsenal. And the same situation ensued with Choi, although in that case the latter's slowness made for more reasonable odds. Again, that the latter were oblivious on the ground does not matter in this regard. It was the right gameplan to use against Ogawa, Valavicius, or even Zulu because those guys were slow, weak, and presented little to no danger in closer quarters.

Against Werdum, Fedor clipped him early and he mistakenly bit the bait, since Werdum always drops to his back when he perceives danger, i.e. against Sergei and Arlovski. He made a second error in judgment diving deeper into his guard instead of going back to his feet, since he had always been able to outmuscle the triangle with his torque due to his broad shoulders and short neck, i.e. like against Minotauro. The same did not hold for Werdum's tighter, longer and fully able guard. Barnett made this point very well, "I believe he was plenty strong, he simply made a mistake". Against Henderson, he similarly perceived the latter to be hurt, but ended up eating a massive shot from the back upon having the opponent escape from the back door with greater mobility. This is Henderson's merit, not Fedor's deterioration. If anything, Fedor was chasing down Henderson with good accuracy and proceded to unleash a strong GnP attack. But he escaped. Hendo is a lighter, more athletic, and better wrestler than Fedor is used to facing. He is also one of the most violent punchers in the business.

With Antonio, Fedor was simply outworked and outpressured by a huge man with well rounded skills, toughness, and a very good gameplan. This is not Hong Man Choi, Sylvia or Schilt we're talking about. Fedor really had very little going on against him, and it was also Antonio who was wagering a brawl with him in close quarters, which didn't play into his favor.

Both Antonio and Henderson had the right gameplan against Fedor for a cage-scenario: push him against the cage, have him tire his broad shoulders, then break the clinch dropping punches, switching levels and taking him down. Fedor is weakest when not able to move forward, he doesn't have a broad base and has actually slender legs. Surprisingly it's not a disimilar principle to the Couture dirty boxing scenario, or to what GSP did with Penn in their second bout.

None of these losses were due to deterioration in Fedor's gameplanning, skillset, or physical conditioning, even if it does show his stock of strategies and skills becoming more obsolete against the current echelon of top fighters, and maladjusted to the more cerebral, well rounded, athletically oriented game of the day. If anything, I believe Fedor's skillset has improved considerably in later years, particularly on his feet. People forget that before he arrived to the US he was also criticized for never having finished a fight by KO, many were questioning his KO power or skillset. Case in point, observe how he threw punches against Nog, Coleman or Ogawa back in his 'prime' days, and you'll see an even sloppier, wider Fedor. It's just that his competition got better, and deviced better strategies.

They underrate him too, since they believe he is somehow done, or incapable of doing the same things he did. I would still pick Fedor against the fighters he beat in the past, in the condition they were back then. I might pick Arlovski in the rematch as I originally picked him to win, and I would pick him over Werdum in a rematch.

These idolizing just comes from butthurt fans who need their mythical Dungeons and Dragons real life superheroes to sustain their hopes in a greater beyond. Fedor is just a great fighter, who has and has always had notorious limitations, and who is facing a much more consistent level of top talent, which he never proved himself against before. When was the last time Fedor fought a guy with such incredible KO power and wrestling offensive like Hendo? Or a BJJ expert the size of Werdum and Bigfoot? That he beat Nog or Mirko in their primes does not mean he was immune to other fighters; even if it was mistakenly assumed that they belonged in a 'special league' categorically above all others. This just wasn't the case.

Cool. Another fedor post. Phone Post

justininhifi - Cool. Another fedor post. <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


God, yet another snarky, condescending post that adds nothing of substance.

Yes, it's another Fedor thread, but the depth of analysis isn't anything like prior ones.

Jamiee - 
justininhifi - Cool. Another fedor post. <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>




God, yet another snarky, condescending post that adds nothing of substance.



Yes, it's another Fedor thread, but the depth of analysis isn't anything like prior ones.
People come here for discussion, not to read essays. For all I know, you made the greatest point in the history of the world, but your presentation is such that almost nobody's going to read it. Especially with how the board has been inundated with Fedor threads lately.

 *Your vote has been cast.

ttt

Anderson Silva - Impressive top talent defeats


Raimundo Pinheiro (2-3)
Jose Barreto (0-1)
Claudionor Fontinelle (9-13)
Israel Albuquerque (0-3)
Alexander Otsuka (4-13)
Daiju Takase (9-13) Anderson Loss
Waldir dos Anjos (3-9)

Shane Carwin

Carlton Jones (1-4)
Jay McCown (1-3)
Justice Smith (0-1)
Rick Slaton (2-3)
Sherman Pendergarst (11-18)

Jose Aldo

Mario Bigola (0-1)
Hudson Rocha (3-6)
Luiz de Paula (0-1)
Aritano Barbosa (5-6)

G1_93257 - Jose Aldo

Mario Bigola (0-1)
Hudson Rocha (3-6)
Luiz de Paula (0-1)
Aritano Barbosa (5-6)


You do not understand the point of OP. I doubt you've even read it carefully.

ttt

Nice post OP, I agree.

Ansari - 
Jamiee - 
justininhifi - Cool. Another fedor post. <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


God, yet another snarky, condescending post that adds nothing of substance.

Yes, it's another Fedor thread, but the depth of analysis isn't anything like prior ones.
People come here for discussion, not to read essays. For all I know, you made the greatest point in the history of the world, but your presentation is such that almost nobody's going to read it. Especially with how the board has been inundated with Fedor threads lately.


There are people, who appreciate thorough breakdowns that go beyond generic and shallow "Dana is wrong, Fedor has beaten Big Nog, Cro Cop, Coleman, Arlovski, Sylvia, and that constitutes GOAT"

Asian Keyboard Warrior - Fedor beats llesnar prime vs prime? LOOL good joke.<br><br>Im a huge fan of fedor but... <img src="/images/phone/post_tag.png" alt="Phone Post" border="0" style="vertical-align:middle;"/>


Lesnar's threat level is very overrated, his top control is sub-par and Fedor's scrambling is still quite good (he even did well in this area against Bigfoot, who probably has the best top control of any HW). Lesnar can't keep anybody down who actually tries to stand back up and he wouldn't pass Fedor's guard. Without passing guard he wouldn't hold Fedor down. Fedor is still a very bad matchup for Lesnar. People just get confused and think he lost to Bigfoot because of wrestling - he didn't, he lost due to BJJ. They also get confused and think Lesnar's weakness is wrestlers - it isn't, it's anybody with good scrambling.

Jamiee - If anything, I believe Fedor's skillset has improved considerably in later years, particularly on his feet. 
I think there is general agreement that Fedor's striking has improved. The argument is that his grappling has deteriorated.

yabadaba - 
Jamiee - If anything, I believe Fedor's skillset has improved considerably in later years, particularly on his feet. 
I think there is general agreement that Fedor's striking has improved. The argument is that his grappling has deteriorated.


I agree. It was especially evident against Werdum, Big Foot and Henderson.

ttt

You couldn't have just posted this in one of the 400 other Fedor threads?


You are like a child who thinks their opinion is the only one that matters so you have to scream it really loud and make everyone look at you.

OP may have some great points, but FRAT!!
Cliff notes?? Phone Post