Dat Sasha Banks v Bayley Promo.....

Chills. Just chills. Phone Post 3.0

Wood. Both. Wood.


But yeah, it was a great promo. Better than half the shit the main roster gets for shows like SS or WM.

Can someone link it? I love all things Sasha.

For some reason it is a very emotionally inviting storyline you feel bayleys passion and general faceyness, but you also know sasha is the 'boss' the perfect heel for bayley, a badass and the best damn female worker.

Unfortunately i can't see this pulling on the heart strings as much as the first match and bayley has already climbed the mountain those big face title wins after a huge chase are when it is truly epic Phone Post 3.0

I'm just waiting for the time the WWE finally gets it through their fucking head that Sasha Banks is prime babyface material as well.

Hey Vince, just because she's black does not mean she either has to be a heel or a fucking jive talking vaudeville show.

Look at her character's "bio."

Built On Self Success. BOSS. As in, she didn't have the advantages of certain people growing up. She had no money, no pedigree, none of that shit. She still built herself up to being the best. She fought, she scratched, she clawed. She was told she was too small, too flat, not pretty enough (fucking liars), etc, etc.

And she became the best. She's Bayley without the perkiness.

Listen to her fucking entrance music. It's a goddamn anthem to self improvement and self success.

How the fuck is she not a face? Because she's that goddamn good as a talker, she can take all of that, and still work heel, and be damn good at it, to the point the fans chant her name instead of the faces.

And all this at 23.

Meanwhile, they've got on the main roster natural heels working as faces. Paige is finally going back to being a heel, and Charlotte, once she drops the title (she doesn't even need to drop it really) should be a heel as well. She's the fucking Nature Girl.

Seriously, if I were WWE creative, I'd turn most of the Diva roster heel. The Bellas, keep as heel. Paige and Charlotte? Heels. Becky Lynch is a better face than heel right now, but she can work both ways. Then turn Sasha face.

It's so goddamned easy to turn her face too. Put her in a match with Charlotte or Becky Lynch, or even Brie Bella (gotta do something with the worthless bitch before she decides to marry Cena then retire). Have her get pissed when Naomi and Tamina interfere, costing her the match (best if it was done as a Divas title match).

Next time, have Sasha come out there and tell Naomi and Tamina to keep their ugly asses out of her fucking match. She fights her ass off, and just when she's about ready to get the victory, BAM! Naomi, Tamina, et al jump her. She takes a beat down.

Face turn, but she's still a tweener. She needs the classic match to back it up. Have her get storyline "injured," and she only does promos or something. Then she gets a Divas title shot against a heel (Paige or a heel Charlotte, because Brie can't work this), and puts on a fucking 5 star clinic, overcoming her injury and winning the title.

Goddamned face of the Divas division for 10 years now, and she has great foes in Becky, Paige, Bayley, and some of the NXT Divas (Asuka, anyone?). She can be like The Rock, work heel and face, and still get pops and move merch.

But, WWE Creative will probably have her as the jive talking angry black girl because, well, that's all black girls can do in WWE.

Chocolate Shatner - I'm just waiting for the time the WWE finally gets it through their fucking head that Sasha Banks is prime babyface material as well.

Hey Vince, just because she's black does not mean she either has to be a heel or a fucking jive talking vaudeville show.

Look at her character's "bio."

Built On Self Success. BOSS. As in, she didn't have the advantages of certain people growing up. She had no money, no pedigree, none of that shit. She still built herself up to being the best. She fought, she scratched, she clawed. She was told she was too small, too flat, not pretty enough (fucking liars), etc, etc.

And she became the best. She's Bayley without the perkiness.

Listen to her fucking entrance music. It's a goddamn anthem to self improvement and self success.

How the fuck is she not a face? Because she's that goddamn good as a talker, she can take all of that, and still work heel, and be damn good at it, to the point the fans chant her name instead of the faces.

And all this at 23.

Meanwhile, they've got on the main roster natural heels working as faces. Paige is finally going back to being a heel, and Charlotte, once she drops the title (she doesn't even need to drop it really) should be a heel as well. She's the fucking Nature Girl.

Seriously, if I were WWE creative, I'd turn most of the Diva roster heel. The Bellas, keep as heel. Paige and Charlotte? Heels. Becky Lynch is a better face than heel right now, but she can work both ways. Then turn Sasha face.

It's so goddamned easy to turn her face too. Put her in a match with Charlotte or Becky Lynch, or even Brie Bella (gotta do something with the worthless bitch before she decides to marry Cena then retire). Have her get pissed when Naomi and Tamina interfere, costing her the match (best if it was done as a Divas title match).

Next time, have Sasha come out there and tell Naomi and Tamina to keep their ugly asses out of her fucking match. She fights her ass off, and just when she's about ready to get the victory, BAM! Naomi, Tamina, et al jump her. She takes a beat down.

Face turn, but she's still a tweener. She needs the classic match to back it up. Have her get storyline "injured," and she only does promos or something. Then she gets a Divas title shot against a heel (Paige or a heel Charlotte, because Brie can't work this), and puts on a fucking 5 star clinic, overcoming her injury and winning the title.

Goddamned face of the Divas division for 10 years now, and she has great foes in Becky, Paige, Bayley, and some of the NXT Divas (Asuka, anyone?). She can be like The Rock, work heel and face, and still get pops and move merch.

But, WWE Creative will probably have her as the jive talking angry black girl because, well, that's all black girls can do in WWE.
This. The sooner Vince gets his pre civil rights mentality out of the business the better. Phone Post 3.0

Yeah Vince never pushes black wrestlers or allows them to be baby faces......

William, it's not that he never pushes "black wrestlers," it is that for 99.99 percent of them, they are pigeonholed.

If they are face, they're jive talkers, #1 Soul Brutha types (JYD) or they are comedic caricatures (Koko B. Ware, Cryme Tyme, etc.)

When they are faces, they are either comedy acts (New Day) or again, thuggish ghetto angry blacks.

The only black wrestlers I can think of who weren't in these two caricatures were The Rock (and a lot of folks don't count him because he's half Samoan), and Ron Simmons, who made it mostly as part of the APA. D-Von can count too, but like Simmons, Vince put him in an Oreo Tag-Team. Notice D-Von's singles run.... a jive talking black preacher. Ron Simmons prior to the APA- angry black militant.

Look at black women in the Divas/Women's division. Now, I admit, my memory only goes back as far as the Attitude Era, but here's what we have:

Jaqueline- Jive talking foil to Sable.
Jazz- Angy black woman
The Funkadactyls- Uh, do I even need to expand on this one?
Tamina- She's fucking Samoan, and they still bring her out as the thug. I admit though she can't work for shit, but damn, come on!

The only black girl I can think of who didn't get this treatment? Layla El, who had quite a few things going for her. One, she was British, so that broke her out of the "American ghetto thug" act. Second, she is super light skinned (in old parlance, she can 'pass'). Finally, she was one of the hottest goddamn Divas around.

But that's it.

Vince needs to get his head out of his ass.

Chocolate Shatner - William, it's not that he never pushes "black wrestlers," it is that for 99.99 percent of them, they are pigeonholed.

If they are face, they're jive talkers, #1 Soul Brutha types (JYD) or they are comedic caricatures (Koko B. Ware, Cryme Tyme, etc.)

When they are faces, they are either comedy acts (New Day) or again, thuggish ghetto angry blacks.

The only black wrestlers I can think of who weren't in these two caricatures were The Rock (and a lot of folks don't count him because he's half Samoan), and Ron Simmons, who made it mostly as part of the APA. D-Von can count too, but like Simmons, Vince put him in an Oreo Tag-Team. Notice D-Von's singles run.... a jive talking black preacher. Ron Simmons prior to the APA- angry black militant.

Look at black women in the Divas/Women's division. Now, I admit, my memory only goes back as far as the Attitude Era, but here's what we have:

Jaqueline- Jive talking foil to Sable.
Jazz- Angy black woman
The Funkadactyls- Uh, do I even need to expand on this one?
Tamina- She's fucking Samoan, and they still bring her out as the thug. I admit though she can't work for shit, but damn, come on!

The only black girl I can think of who didn't get this treatment? Layla El, who had quite a few things going for her. One, she was British, so that broke her out of the "American ghetto thug" act. Second, she is super light skinned (in old parlance, she can 'pass'). Finally, she was one of the hottest goddamn Divas around.

But that's it.

Vince needs to get his head out of his ass.
This. Thank you. There is ado the fact he has never had a black world champion. The rock doesn't really count since he is half Samoan, and the wcw title doesn't count either since it was basically the new intercontinental title. Phone Post 3.0

Chocolate Shatner - William, it's not that he never pushes "black wrestlers," it is that for 99.99 percent of them, they are pigeonholed.

If they are face, they're jive talkers, #1 Soul Brutha types (JYD) or they are comedic caricatures (Koko B. Ware, Cryme Tyme, etc.)

When they are faces, they are either comedy acts (New Day) or again, thuggish ghetto angry blacks.

The only black wrestlers I can think of who weren't in these two caricatures were The Rock (and a lot of folks don't count him because he's half Samoan), and Ron Simmons, who made it mostly as part of the APA. D-Von can count too, but like Simmons, Vince put him in an Oreo Tag-Team. Notice D-Von's singles run.... a jive talking black preacher. Ron Simmons prior to the APA- angry black militant.

Look at black women in the Divas/Women's division. Now, I admit, my memory only goes back as far as the Attitude Era, but here's what we have:

Jaqueline- Jive talking foil to Sable.
Jazz- Angy black woman
The Funkadactyls- Uh, do I even need to expand on this one?
Tamina- She's fucking Samoan, and they still bring her out as the thug. I admit though she can't work for shit, but damn, come on!

The only black girl I can think of who didn't get this treatment? Layla El, who had quite a few things going for her. One, she was British, so that broke her out of the "American ghetto thug" act. Second, she is super light skinned (in old parlance, she can 'pass'). Finally, she was one of the hottest goddamn Divas around.

But that's it.

Vince needs to get his head out of his ass.

I can be pretty racially insensitive at times: for example I have no problem ridiculing black men who chase after big, fat white women. I also care nothing for race baiters like Al Sharpton or Jessie Jackson, but I can't believe they never publicly came down on Vince for some of the black characters and story lines.

Tony Atlas turns into Saba Simba.

One Man Gang turns in the "African Dream" Hakeem.

The Godfather.

Cryme Time.

Seriously, WTF Vince?!


Honorable mention to Booker T as "GI Bro" in WCW.

I know this thread has been derailed a bit but it's true what shatner is saying.

But here's my question... when Vince does decide to push a black wrestler with a non black gimmick will the crowd connect with them?

Shelton Benjamin an outstanding wrestler was more popular with his angry black grandma ginmick than his gold standard gimmick. Big E was dead in the water till he joined new day and his gimmicks were pretty non black as well. I know the world was ready for a black president.. but I'm not sure the wwe universe is ready for a black champion Lol.

Didn't Ahmed Johnson have the belt for a little? Phone Post 3.0

Sasha Banks is awesome. Probably one of the best workers in WWE. Not just out of the divas. They need to build that whole division around her and bring Bayley up. They always have like 3 main events at wrestlemania, so why not have Banks vs Bayley be one of them? Those two can obviously "go" better than a lot of the guys, so why not? Phone Post 3.0

Isn't she biracial, though? Even if she isn't, someone with her talent transcends race.

wanderpage siljackson - I know this thread has been derailed a bit but it's true what shatner is saying.

But here's my question... when Vince does decide to push a black wrestler with a non black gimmick will the crowd connect with them?

Shelton Benjamin an outstanding wrestler was more popular with his angry black grandma ginmick than his gold standard gimmick. Big E was dead in the water till he joined new day and his gimmicks were pretty non black as well. I know the world was ready for a black president.. but I'm not sure the wwe universe is ready for a black champion Lol.

Didn't Ahmed Johnson have the belt for a little? Phone Post 3.0

I think Banks can be "the one."

As mentioned before she's more talented than half the roster. Not half the Divas, half THE ROSTER. She's better than most of the men's roster, and ALL of the women. The only ones who can hold a candle to her in terms of total package (in ring, on mike, etc) are all time greats.

She's beautiful. And not in a "pretty for a black girl" way, or "pretty for a pro wrestler" way. You see this chick in the food court of your local mall, and you want to talk to her, plain and simple.

She can work. My only critique of her in-ring skills is that she tends to depend on crossed arm straightjacket like maneuvers a lot. Her rest hold is consistently the straightjacket, and she does a slam from that too. Good, but that could be added to. Her finishers (Bankrupt, Bank Statement) are great, and for pro wrestling believable.

I've covered her mike work above, let's just say that when she talks, you believe it. Whether it be arrogant bitch or hard fighting up and comer, or whatever, you believe it.

Also, her timing is right. Vince is 70. He's starting to pass the reigns on to Steph and HHH. She's one of the 4 Horsewomen, a HHH group.

If anyone can break the "black barrier," its her. On the men's side, maybe Apollo Crews if he can develop his character away from such a "black name." Maybe Jason Jordan too.

The big issue with Benjamin was he had the charisma of last week's leftovers. Same with Kofi Kingston. They're spot hounds with great athletic ability and no charisma.

Big E, I've heard at least (I didn't see him in NXT), could be a guy who could break out. But with the New Day in his resume, he might have pigeonholed himself.

Of the New Day guys, I'd say Xavier is the best "non-black" character. He's not black, he's fucking Rufio! He's Al Sharpton! He's the man with the Rusty Trombone! He can talk. I do wonder why they keep him out of the ring other than to take big bumps, honestly, though.

Chocolate Shatner - William, it's not that he never pushes "black wrestlers," it is that for 99.99 percent of them, they are pigeonholed.

If they are face, they're jive talkers, #1 Soul Brutha types (JYD) or they are comedic caricatures (Koko B. Ware, Cryme Tyme, etc.)

When they are faces, they are either comedy acts (New Day) or again, thuggish ghetto angry blacks.

The only black wrestlers I can think of who weren't in these two caricatures were The Rock (and a lot of folks don't count him because he's half Samoan), and Ron Simmons, who made it mostly as part of the APA. D-Von can count too, but like Simmons, Vince put him in an Oreo Tag-Team. Notice D-Von's singles run.... a jive talking black preacher. Ron Simmons prior to the APA- angry black militant.

Look at black women in the Divas/Women's division. Now, I admit, my memory only goes back as far as the Attitude Era, but here's what we have:

Jaqueline- Jive talking foil to Sable.
Jazz- Angy black woman
The Funkadactyls- Uh, do I even need to expand on this one?
Tamina- She's fucking Samoan, and they still bring her out as the thug. I admit though she can't work for shit, but damn, come on!

The only black girl I can think of who didn't get this treatment? Layla El, who had quite a few things going for her. One, she was British, so that broke her out of the "American ghetto thug" act. Second, she is super light skinned (in old parlance, she can 'pass'). Finally, she was one of the hottest goddamn Divas around.

But that's it.

Vince needs to get his head out of his ass.
Forgot Karma Phone Post 3.0

Frills - 
Chocolate Shatner - William, it's not that he never pushes "black wrestlers," it is that for 99.99 percent of them, they are pigeonholed.

If they are face, they're jive talkers, #1 Soul Brutha types (JYD) or they are comedic caricatures (Koko B. Ware, Cryme Tyme, etc.)

When they are faces, they are either comedy acts (New Day) or again, thuggish ghetto angry blacks.

The only black wrestlers I can think of who weren't in these two caricatures were The Rock (and a lot of folks don't count him because he's half Samoan), and Ron Simmons, who made it mostly as part of the APA. D-Von can count too, but like Simmons, Vince put him in an Oreo Tag-Team. Notice D-Von's singles run.... a jive talking black preacher. Ron Simmons prior to the APA- angry black militant.

Look at black women in the Divas/Women's division. Now, I admit, my memory only goes back as far as the Attitude Era, but here's what we have:

Jaqueline- Jive talking foil to Sable.
Jazz- Angy black woman
The Funkadactyls- Uh, do I even need to expand on this one?
Tamina- She's fucking Samoan, and they still bring her out as the thug. I admit though she can't work for shit, but damn, come on!

The only black girl I can think of who didn't get this treatment? Layla El, who had quite a few things going for her. One, she was British, so that broke her out of the "American ghetto thug" act. Second, she is super light skinned (in old parlance, she can 'pass'). Finally, she was one of the hottest goddamn Divas around.

But that's it.

Vince needs to get his head out of his ass.
Forgot Karma Phone Post 3.0

I actually excluded Awesome Kong for two reasons.

First, she was a motherfucking legend before she even debuted. Second, she was there for barely a hot minute before her mental issues screwed her up, and for good reason, honestly. Watching her since she came back, she's a shadow of her former self.

But what if she had stuck around for more than a few months? Guarantee you she'd have been stuck.

Wasn't Alicia Fox top diva for a while? Phone Post 3.0

Fox has never been "the girl."

she's held the Divas title yes, but she was never the top Diva. She held the title for a total of 56 days, and was really used more as a transition between faces (Eve to a returning Melina).

Also, this was during the brand split era, when the Women's Championship was also being contested. While WWE eventually unified the Divas title with the Women's title and deactivated the Women's belt, at the time I would say the Women's belt was more acclaimed.

When Fox had her title reign, Layla was the official Women's champ, as part of LayCool. And let's face it, LayCool was more seen as the top of the Divas Division than Fox ever was.

Chocolate Shatner - Fox has never been "the girl."

she's held the Divas title yes, but she was never the top Diva. She held the title for a total of 56 days, and was really used more as a transition between faces (Eve to a returning Melina).

Also, this was during the brand split era, when the Women's Championship was also being contested. While WWE eventually unified the Divas title with the Women's title and deactivated the Women's belt, at the time I would say the Women's belt was more acclaimed.

When Fox had her title reign, Layla was the official Women's champ, as part of LayCool. And let's face it, LayCool was more seen as the top of the Divas Division than Fox ever was.
Sources?
Lol Phone Post 3.0