that's some serious cash
"There shouldn't, but MMAer's obsession with burying boxing seems to grow bigger every day."
You mean a few forum members responding to a FEW other forum members' obsession with talkng down MMA?
MOST MMA fans on here watched boxing before getting into MMA. That's certainly the case for me.
I'm glad boxing stays strong, it's a key element to MMA. I don't wish hate on wrestling, kickboxing, BJJ etc either, cos they all make up MMA...
smac, what the fuck are you talking about? Show me where
the UFC releases the official PPV buys. Please. Do that and you win the
intenets.
Estimates are released by people other than the UFC, but not official
numbers.
"You mean a few forum members responding to a FEW other forum members' obsession with talkng down MMA?"
It's more than a few, and they aren't responding to anything. They genuinely seem to get a kick out of bashing other sports while proclaiming MMA's superiority.
It's been going on for a while now.
The fallacy for proclaiming boxing's supposed rejuvenation from this one PPV alone, however, is that "boxing" really did not sell this fight.
DLH did.
No other boxer (or MMA-er or any other combat sport athlete for that matter) could have headlined an event that would sell over 2 million PPV buys.
DLH is the only combat sport athlete who transcends his sport. He is a name who even non-sports fans know and care about. He is the only true superstar fighting today, and he is boxing's last mainstream celebrity.
After the lone star of DLH fades away, no others are in the skyline right now to take his place.
On the other hand, "ultimate fighting" itself IS what sells UFC's.
Yes, fans care about the individual fighters to an extent, but none of them really supersede the product. It's not like people who never watch UFC would say, "Oh I MUST order this next event because Chuck Liddell is in it."
Contrast that with the number of people who ordered DLH-PBF purely because of the interest in DLH.
With the UFC, it is the action and the sport itself which sell. Unlike for DLH-PBF, where the individual, DLH, is what sold.
Chuck/Tito did just over 1 million buys....
Congrats to boxing, know 2.1 million people feel like they got robbed out of $55.00 bucks.
From Dave
"--Dana White's comments on the de la Hoya vs. Mayweather fight are at www.sports.bostonherald.com/ufc/view.bg?articleid=1000134. White ripped on the show. His comments regarding not having a strong undercard were right on the mark. Golden Boy promotions totally dropped the ball there, as they should have showcased people who would be in line for de la Hoya or Mayweather, to build interest for a future match. In frot of the biggest boxing audience in years, they built nobody who didn't come into the show already built, which were the two fighters. Then he talked about how the fight itself sucked and hurt in the long run. He should know better than anyone else that while everyone rails about fight quality the day after, it has very little to do with people giving up the sport nor do great fights help that much. Selling of fights is a combination of star power, exposure and most of all, quality of hype during your exposure. De la Hoya vs. Mayweather was tons better than the UFC show with Arlovski vs. Sylvia and Shamrock vs. Ortiz. It was tons better than the Chris Leben vs. Josh Koscheck fight. After both of those shows, all I read was how the bad fight (s) just killed UFC, when UFC only grew bigger after both. Castillo vs. Corrales a few years back (the first one) was probably the best boxing or MMA fight I saw that year and really in many years. Yet the promise of a rematch of "the greatest fight of the decade" didn't do 300,000 buys. Most insiders didn't expect the de la Hoya vs. Mayweather fight to be good, but the hype was off the charts and so was business. Record business comes from casual fans. But you also can only get casual fans on a limited basis. The de la Hoya fight was so-so, but if they rematch the two in nine months, people can write all they want about boxing being dead, but there is nothing Vince McMahon or Dana White or anyone could put on that could touch the numbers they'll put up for a rematch. At this point I see White as being a really smart promoter in that he was able to use the biggest event in another sport to greatly grow the mainstream visibility of his promotion. They are absolutely more relevant than boxing to younger viewers but a hell of a lot more younger viewers watched Oscar and Floyd last week than will watch Chuck next week."
Agreed....
^^^GREAT analysis. Absolutely spot-on.
The massive numbers reflect DLH, everybody's clean-cut fighting hero, being able to draw the casual fan. And not only the casual fan, but probably people who had never even ordered a boxing PPV before.
I bet a good portion of the PPV audience didn't even really know who PBF was before this fight was announced. All they knew was that he was some thuggish bad-ass who was supposed to be the #1 boxer around right now, who DLH would be coming in as the underdog to.
The center of interest was all DLH. The audience viewed the fight purely from his perspective, not PBF's.
It was all about whether DLH could surmount the odds and beat the favorite, not at all about whether PBF could stay undefeated and hold on to his P4P crown.
This was more a DLH event, than a boxing event.
And it was more of a social event than just a sporting event.
It's like the Super Bowl. EVERYBODY watches, even chicks who care nothing for football, just so they can be a part of the mega social event. Whether the game sucked or not (as it often does) is irrelevant. There'll still another SB party again next year.
That's what this event was as well. They'll pay for the rematch, they'll pay for another DLH mega-event. But they won't pay for PBF. And they won't pay for anyone else out there right now.
Right. I consider myself to be a casual boxing fan. I watch almost any sporting event and I like some more than others. But I honestly can tell you I faintly heard of PBF before this fight. His name sounded familar but I couldn't tell who he is if you put him in a lineup. Now it's a different story, but there's a great chance I wouldn't pay to see him fight anybody else other than DLH. Their fight really was a SuperBowl of sorts.
You would think with 2.15 million buys, Golden Boy Promotions (read: Oscar) would've beefed up the undercard to make it exciting and something you'd be sorry to miss if you only showed up for the main event (more like a sparring match but it was an okay fight), which is just one problem with boxing. Another one is they don't have another Oscar. The thing is he can sneeze 800,000 buys. He is that untouchable. PBF would be lucky if he could draw half that.
And their next fight better focus on the title. It was in the second or third 24/7 special where I learned this for the title. Even during the decision, most people in the arena (and people like me at home) thought Oscar won when they announced "new champion". The title shouldn't be an after thought. There are too many titles in boxing that no one cares about. That's terrible.
that is an astronomical number. Incredible that a non-heavyweight fight can do the most ever.
As for the fight turning people off, there have been MUCH worse megafights over the years. Did the fight live up to the hype? No. Was it a horrible fight? No. Most Superbowls never live up to the hype either. Tyson's ear bite, the Holyfield/Lewis scoring debacle, and Oscar/Trinidad were far worse. This fight was just a competitive, if technical fight, with a just decision. Didn't help or hurt boxing overall, but it did show that a big boxing match is still one of biggest attractions in all of sports.
btw, if DLH/Trinidad happens next year it will do at least 1.5 million PPV buys. Trinidad is already talking that fight up and Oscar has been talking about it for years. You know HBO is gonna do everything in their power to try and make that fight happen.
Mayweather also went from being a small time name to casual fans to a household sports name, on the cover of Sports Illustrated and on the Tonight Show, etc. If he fights guys like Hatton, Cotto, or Margarito he will do MUCH better than he did before on PPV. Mayweather/Cotto is probably worth 600 to 700 000 ppv buys now considering how large Cotto's fanbase has grown. Mayweather/Hatton would be huge in England.
Boxing is far from dead. Even in the next few months their are great fights like Hatton/Castillo, Hopkins/Wright, and Cotto/Judah.
"If PBF wasn't a household name before the Oscar fight, then people certainly won't care about the other boxers that you mentioned."
Hatton and Cotto have a big following and people will definetly care if Mayweather fights either one.
"Boxing is a points oriented pillow fighting contest. We're past that now."
Your right. Boxers should sit down, watch Gabe R. in the last TUF episode and take notes.
that's a huge number
"This wasn't about boxing, it was about race."
you could literally say that about half of boxing's biggest fights ever. Jack Johnson/Jim Jeffries, Louis/Schmelling, any Marciano fight, Pep/Saddler, Robinson/LaMotta, Ali/Frazier (Frazier was seen as the white man's champ), Holmes/Cooney, Leonard/Duran, DLH/Trinidad, DLH/Mayweather now. Racial and national pride has always been at the forefront of a sport like boxing.
This fight wasn't unique in that, and in fact overall race played a relatively small role in it, compared to all the other fights I mentioned. This fight had more to do with the sports Golden Boy going up against it's most talented, but brattiest fighter. It was the juxtaposition of their personalities that sold it as much as it was their skin color.
DE LA HOYA PPV HISTORY
Rafael Ruelas( 5/95) 330,000 buys = $9.9 million
Genaro Hernandez(9/95) 220,000 buys = $6.6 million
M.A. Gonzalez(1/97) 345,000 buys = $12.1 million
Pernell Whitaker(4/97) 720,000 buys = $28.8 million
Hector Camacho(9/97) 560,000 buys = $22.4 million
Wilfredo Rivera(12/97) 240,000 buys = $9.6 million
J.C Chavez II( 9/9 525,000 buys = $23.6 million
Ike Quartey( 2/99) 570,000 buys =$25.7 million
Felix Trinidad(9/99) 1.4 million buys = $71.4 million
Shane Mosley(6/00) 590,000 buys = $29.5 million
Javier Castillejo(6/01) 400,000 buys = $16.0 million
Fernando Vargas(9/02) 935,000 buys = $47.8 million
Yory Boy Campas(5/03) 350,000 buys = $17.5 million
Shane Mosley II( 9/03) 950,000 buys = $48.4 million
Felix Sturm(6/04) 380,000 buys = $19.0 million
Bernard Hopkins(9/04) 1 million buys = $56.0 million
Ricardo Mayorga (05/06) 875,000 buys (note, my other source says 925,000)
"You're looking at this from the perspective of a die-hard fan, and not the average person who knows shit all about boxing."
I don't know what you're referring to. All the fight I mentioned are fights that appealed to the average person on the street. Every big boxing event in history had somme storyline going into it that sold it to more than just the die hard fans. It's always been about human interest, this fight was no different. Race, religion, and personalities, all play a role in selling any fight. Why do you think the UFC has become popular?? Because of a reality show where people got to know the fighters and coaches personally. Without that reality show, the UFC loses 80% of it's fanbase.
^^^GREAT post.
Character development creates people you care about in any storyline, and is the key to compelling dramatic interest.
I guess alot of people on here were right, boxing is dead. LOL!!