Decline in society

There are a lot of threads here where people talk about a decline in society and highlight concerns about the rise of homosexuality and other supposedly anti-christian types of behaviour.

Putting different views about what is right and wrong in society aside, what should we actually do about this perceived detrimental change in society? Is it up to the government or the individual to do something? Does the church have a role to play? How will society be changed onto a better course in your opinion?

I'm really interested to hear religious views on possible solutions because I think there have been too many threads focussing only on the problems without giving any answers.

We should send all of the homosexuals to France.  That's a win/win.

well for starters in a war between the squares and the homos my money is on the homos. I mean just look how worked uop the lesbians got ridgeback.

resistance is futile.

now if could just get the homos to stop homoing everything would be ok. i think its pretty much fundie common knowledge that all bad in society comes from homos. The fashion industry is just the tip of the iceberg, they want in the army, govt, everywhere.

fear of a gay planet. eventually they will take over and all us straights will either have to switch sides or join the rebellion lead by the straight man leader larry the cable guy.



I got a double whammy. A bunch of illegal immigrants were at walmart. I was walking behind them. I saw this latina chick stop and french kiss what looked like a 14 year old boy. Wranglers, ball cap and buzz haircut. As I walked past them, I saw breasts on this boy. The looked at me and laughed. I must have had a look of oh my gosh on my face. So in a nutshell, Walmart, ugly lesbians and illegal immigrants are the decline of our society.

Great ideas guys. ttt for more useful solutions to our declining society.

i am not sure what else to suggest, maybe i better do some in depth research on lesbians and come back.

I'm not meaning to keep it focused only on homosexuals, there are a lot of other social issues which obviously concern people here

I'd just like to hear some ideas for solutions, rather than hearing about the problems always.


Why don't you answer your own question?  How would you "solve" this problem:

Syphilis rise in U.S. gay, bisexual men causes worry

Fri May 4, 2007 1:01 PM ET

By Will Dunham

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Syphilis has risen sharply among gay and bisexual men in the United States this decade, driving up the country's rate for the disease and placing these men at higher risk for AIDS, federal health officials say.

Since dropping to the lowest level on record in 2000, the U.S. rate of syphilis, a sexually transmitted bacterial disease, has risen steadily, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention officials said on Friday.

The rate rose five years in a row through 2005, the most recent year for which the CDC had figures.

Gay and bisexual men accounted for 7 percent of syphilis cases in 2000 but more than 60 percent in 2005, CDC experts estimated.

"The most devastating consequence of this increase in syphilis cases would be an increase in the rates of HIV infection," said Dr. Khalil Ghanem of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine in Baltimore.

"Syphilis and HIV have a close, deadly symbiotic relationship."

CDC epidemiologist Dr. James Heffelfinger said syphilis, like many other sexually transmitted diseases, raises the likelihood of infection by or transmission of the human immunodeficiency virus, which causes AIDS.

Syphilis raises these risks by an estimated two to five times, he said.

Condom use can greatly reduce the risk of getting syphilis, which is readily curable with antibiotics in its early stages but capable of causing severe medical problems and even death if left untreated.

"We are seeing that syphilis is on the rise among a very specific subset of gay men: those who are having a great deal of sex with multiple sex partners," said Joel Ginsberg, executive director of the Gay and Lesbian Medical Association in San Francisco.

Many are HIV-infected or test positive for HIV for the first time when they learn they have syphilis, he said.


"Among these men, there seems to be decreased condom use, perhaps related to an attitude of 'I already have HIV, so why bother?' or because HIV is seen as a chronic disease that can be managed well with medications," Ginsberg said.

Tremendous progress was made against syphilis in the 1990s. In 1999, the CDC announced an initiative to fully eliminate it from the United States.

After reaching 50,000 cases and a rate of 20.3 cases per 100,000 people in 1990 -- the highest since 1949 -- public health efforts helped drive down the rate to 2.1 per 100,000 people in 2000.

But the rate rose to 3 per 100,000 in 2005, with 8,724 cases, the CDC said.

"We're concerned that we're seeing this upturn among men who have sex with men because it could foreshadow bigger increases," CDC epidemiologist Dr. Hillard Weinstock said.

Ghanem of Johns Hopkins faulted the gay and bisexual community, public health leaders and the medical establishment for failing to get across a message of prevention, citing "safe-sex fatigue" after the advent of powerful AIDS drugs in the 1990s.

"Once these wonder drugs came along, patients no longer saw HIV as a death sentence, and clinicians unfortunately became more lackadaisical about conveying prevention messages," Ghanem said.

Use of a smokable form of the illegal drug methamphetamine known as "crystal meth" also is associated with unsafe sexual practices linked to syphilis, Ghanem said.

The syphilis rate among men is nearly six times higher than for women. The vast majority of male cases is among gays and bisexuals.

All we can do is pray that God doesn't freek out and smash us all IMO. We as men will never stop ourselves from distroying what was intended.

an emphasis on traditional values and the effort by the government to create a society which supports such living.

I think the general fabric of our society is in decline in many senses. I think the main reason is the lack of a foundation of 'who am I ?'. this may sound strange but Rome at its high point was based on , I am Roman and this is what is expected of being a roman citizen.

In america, Im an american this is what I stand for and I shall act accordingly. Radical islam and islam in general. I am a follower of islam, this is what I am and this is what I do and my children shall do.

America, Who am I ? were all blobs of existence. Poor me, I dont want to follow rules and morals. Im just going to be me and live for myself. The govt is evil, religion is evil and my parents screwed up my life. I have no future because of the rich. Im going to be like eminem or snoop diggity dog because they got the bitches and hoes. Thats what life is about, ME and getting rich and famous for being on tv.

Our Supposed Greatest Generation came home with an idea of america and what men and women fought and died for. It worked for a time.

Rome, once it allowed an amalgamation of cultures, religions and a breakdown of 'rome', they fell into anything and everything and forgot the collective good.

Zealott- I disagree, of all the western nations, the US has the strongest and most resilient myths to live by. If those myths do die and are not entrentched of the culture of the following generations, quite quickly (always in less than 6 generations) another culture with better myths will take its place.

hmm, maybe I mispoke because I generally agree with what you just said. America is losing that sense of collective morality, and doing things because that what good citizens do.

what is the difference between the collective myths and the collective morality? Isn't one just an illustrative story of the other?

"Why don't you answer your own question? How would you "solve" this problem:"

Well I can answer it in general terms, but then you have already heard about my politics in a few threads and so you can probably guess the sorts of things I'd propose. I don't want to clutter it up with a load of boring stuff which will turn people off. I will if you are still interested later and nobody comments themselves but I'm really interested in Christian politics, and I feel that most of you feel something is going wrong so I'd like to hear solutions.

Re the specific case of HIV positive gay men catching syphilis..what does that have to do with anything? If people want to have unprotected sex with each other what could we possibly do to stop them? Providing information to the people at risk would probably be the best place to start.

The spread of disease is a public health problem.  It raises insurance rates.  It requires government resources.  It ruins marriages (at least some of these men are leading double lives no doubt).  You seem to believe in the myth of the individual in society who can make a bunch of irresponsible choices and not affect other people.  But nothing really works like that.  We are more like an organism and when one part of the organism is malfunctioning it influences the health of the whole. 

There is no such thing as "Christian politics".  The ways that Christians interact with the political are as varied as any other group.  Many Christians actually work in direct opposition with each other in the political world.

"You seem to believe in the myth of the individual in society who can make a bunch of irresponsible choices and not affect other people. But nothing really works like that. We are more like an organism and when one part of the organism is malfunctioning it influences the health of the whole."

I don't think I said this anywhere, did I? Is it a common myth? You'd probably be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks people operate in a vaccuum wrt other people, if that is what you're saying.

What do you think we should do then, now that you have defined what you see as the do we nurse our organism back to health?

'what is the difference between the collective myths and the collective morality? Isn't one just an illustrative story of the other?'

Good question. I think in times past in america, the collective myths or ethos of our society was more told 'around the campfire' than now.

We as a society have drifted toward individualism over the collective good. In some ways this is a good thing but with the masses doing it, your bound to get people so caught up in me, that they forget the We.

Todays myths revolve around reality tv or E lebrityism . Money for nothing. There is next to no concept of a work ethic. One place i find consistent good young men with a work ethic is in the wrestling room. no one takes a win without good old fashion effort. Small analogy, just some personal experience with todays teenagers.


But you were asking what that subject had to do with anything.  It has as much to do with anything as any other problem.  The US will die a death of a thousand cuts, not some major blow (barring a catastrophic terror attack).  The selfishness and foolishness in letting oneself get HIV because it is a "controlled" disease is symptomatic of a general malaise across the culture.

I have repeated many times now that there is nothing that can be done if most of the culture doesn't want to improve.  There were old myths in the US (Protestant Christianity) and in England (Anglican Christianity) that have all but been rejected by the majority without really being replaced by anything more substantial than "if it feels good and doesn't hurt anyone do it".  Of course when it does hurt in the sense of long term consequences that doesn't really stop the majority from going on living a life of sensuality.  Kierkegaard thought that there were three ways of life.   There is the sensual, the ethical, and the religious.  He argued that the religious life was the highest end and transcended the ethical, but between the sensual and ethical he had no doubts about what was better.  I think that a society can stand if the majority or at least the most powerful live the life of the ethical,  but the majority of people in the US are now living the sensual life and it will most likely die as a culture in the not so distant future.  It will in fact be replaced at least in some areas by people who have clear myths like MS pointed out. 

Think of it in microcosm.  An ethical person will be honest about money.  He won't take too much change if he knows about it, he won't steal, and he won't try to cheat the insurance company with fraud or the government with unemployment.  Now most people do exactly the opposite and it erodes a culture.  The few who are ethical have the burden of taking care of the many who aren't.  Eventually the scale tips and the country disintegrates.  Personally I think a stable family with at least one parent at home with the children is the starting point for raising the kinds of ethical citizens that can hold a country together.  The family is nearly destroyed in the West and that is where it all begins.  I don't know how you make people do better in that respect against their will.  I think something very bad will happen before people get serious and reform their lives.