Decline in society

Another BIG problem is that there is NO SHAME in our society. People outing themselves with their darkest secrets on TV then being patted on the back by oprah and they sell a million books.

Honor and Shame makes for a strong society. Whether its misguided or not aka Imperial Japan, is another issue.

I agree with that zealot. The problem is how do you instil this in people, without simply indoctrinating them as kids? I have no answer really. A thing that particularly concerns me is the overlap of the adult world into childhood. Again very difficult to stop without losing something valuable.

A good and free society is very vulnerable to attack or subversion unfortunately.

I think one of the founding fathers said something to the effect that our system would not work unless the people were governed by a personal morality. Makes one wonder if it , like other forms of govt. , is doomed to fail. Even if it takes 3-400 years.

I know Adam Smith believed that capitalism had to be governed by "proper Christian morality" in order to prevent to ugly side of runaway capitalism from crushing people. One could make similar arguements about the government.

Maybe we need a lot more crunchy cons:

A Crunchy Con Manifesto

By Rod Dreher

1. We are conservatives who stand outside the conservative mainstream; therefore, we can see things that matter more clearly.

2. Modern conservatism has become too focused on money, power, and the accumulation of stuff, and insufficiently concerned with the content of our individual and social character.

3. Big business deserves as much skepticism as big government.

4. Culture is more important than politics and economics.

5. A conservatism that does not practice restraint, humility, and good stewardship—especially of the natural world—is not fundamentally conservative.

6. Small, Local, Old, and Particular are almost always better than Big, Global, New, and Abstract.

7. Beauty is more important than efficiency.

8. The relentlessness of media-driven pop culture deadens our senses to authentic truth, beauty, and wisdom.

9. We share Russell Kirk’s conviction that “the institution most essential to conserve is the family.”

10. Politics and economics won’t save us; if our culture is to be saved at all, it will be by faithfully living by the Permanent Things, conserving these ancient moral truths in the choices we make in our everyday lives.

What kind of economic model would the above group propose and how would they control it, because it would need control for what they see as valuable to survive.

history never fails to repeat itself in one form or another. Freedom without moral constraints is doomed to fail as is communism, fascism, etc.

Good thread Chance! I think we start within our circle of influence. I start with asking God to change me, to enable me to love others. I seek to live at peace with those within my house. I teach my kids to show kindness to friends, classmates, neighbors. As a family we give of our time and abilities to our church. Our church just started last month. One way we try to serve the community was participating with the school we are using in landscaping project.

z is absolutely correct though we are very much a individualistic society. In the "Connecting Church" the author highlights the connection between materialism and individualism - if I have no financial/material need, I don't need you, my neighbor. If church/community is all about what I get out of it, I do not serve others or seek to strengthen the rest of the community. The community as a whole is weakened when there are no common values to unite the way we live our lives.

To have community you have to trust, or have rules that are enforced consistently so you don't get abused. Without trust people will naturally become guarded and take sides.

Watched some car jacker punch a 91 year old man in the head a few times last night on the news while 5 people stood around and watched in a parking lot. The report said he did it 20+ times. It sickened me. I remember my parents engraining "respect your elders" so much in me that I used to think that being old automatically meant you were a good and wise person.

ttt for ridgeback

You know, there were a couple of homicides in my nice suburban area. Im afraid, Id think twice before interrupting a carjacking. Even though I could slap a choke on someone, I might get shot by his friend or him. pretty scary. Im realizing Im defining my levels of moral importance. If it was my wife for instance, either he or me is dying. but someone I dont know ? cant say what Id do.