I've always been impressed by the old school boxing managers who brought their fighters along carefully, protecting their confidence and letting them develop at a slow and steady pace.
No southpaw's too soon. The crafty veteran at the right time.
This is severely lacking in mixed martial arts. For many managers, it's a race to get their fighter to the UFC or some other big fight. Once a fighter gets to the big show, it's not a matter of picking and choosing the opponent. When you're there, your options are limited. When you get your fighter in the bright lights, it's put up or shut up time for him. The developmental window closes drastically, and I think many first time UFC fighters are shocked at the level of competition they have suddenly found themselves thrust into.
In boxing, where a fighter may not face a high level opponent for 15 to 20 fights, and a number of amateur bouts, in mixed martial arts, that can happen after 6 to 7 bouts.
Many times they are facing other hungry prospects or veterans way to early in their career. For someone in boxing it's a rarity, in MMA it's the norm.
I had a boxing mentor of mine once tell me when I got overanxious in estimating my fighters abilities that, "The last thing a fighter wants is a brave manager, because he's not the one getting hit."
The structure of MMA in comparision to boxing may partially be to blame. In boxing, if Top Rank Boxing or Don King signs a high level amateur prospect or an olympian their goal is to get their moneys worth out of that fighter and develop him. If the UFC signs someone, their goal is to get exciting fights plain and simple. The cream rises to the top. They are Top Rank, Don King, the WBC, and the IBF rolled into one.
It does make for more exciting matchups than boxing most of the time, and it's more fan friendly. But I believe that an MMA manager needs to be aware of this structure and protect his fighter before getting them in the big show.
Thoughts on this?
+1
I think the difference becomes how we look at a fighters record.
In boxing you see a 20-0 record and don't necessarily think the guy is a phenom. In MMA a record like that draws a ton of attention.
Randy Couture is by far one of the greatest ever and he is 16-10, a boxing record like that would never get any recognition other than "he's a tough guy".
So, I think the perception copensates for these differences in the sport.
Keith is correct, crafting a career is a skill. In the past I may have rushed fighters to the big show so as I could make a name myself along with them. Now, I would rather err on the side of caution. The question I get the most now is when will we see Peewee in the UFC, he should be in the UFC. My answer is "when's he's ready". You can't fake learning experiences.
I think you're doing a great job with Herman, Mike. He seems to be progressively getting better. I'm very interested to see how much he improves with the new training situation.
Tyler, you're correct. In boxing, a loss on a record is looked at much differently than in MMA. Couture's 16-10 record is against top level competition. In boxing, his equivalent record would probably be 45-10.
I think its mainly how a fan/history views the record. In boxing you can have a prospect with a 15-0 record take a bad loss and his career is basically over. Basically a boxer's manager wants to let his fighter gain all that learning experience without risking a loss. Whereas in MMA, you can get the learning experience, take the loss, and it doesn't really set the fighter's career back all that much. You know...assuming he doesn't take too bad of a beating lol
Monte Cox is the role model for doing it right.
In addition though, the model in MMA is different, and more competitive. In Boxing, a prospect faces a string of Opponents, maybe 15 or so. Then a couple of gatekeepers. Then a title shot.
MMA bouts tend to be competitive from the beginning. Once a fighter is good, and can put together a string of maybe five wins against good (better than 50-50 records) compeitors, then they can look for a big show.
Great post Keith. I agree 100%.
Been saying this forever Keith.
Makes me laugh when people chide a promoter for doing amateur fights. They are a staple for becoming a champion.
Can you imagine if Carlos Newton or Yong Dong Sik(or any other Korean fighter fighting for a Japanese promotion, for that matter) were brought along properly without being fed to the wolves?
cusandmike - Can you imagine if Carlos Newton or Yong Dong Sik(or any other Korean fighter fighting for a Japanese promotion, for that matter) were brought along properly without being fed to the wolves?
+1
they threw some Olympic silver medalist in Judo to Aoki in his 1st or 2nd fight, because he was Korean. tons of talent out there being rushed, and no managers looking out for them.
how many times in MMA do you see some young hotshot at 6-0 or some shit, fighting another undefeated prospect? all the time, killing their undefeated records before they even make the big show. that would never happen in boxing.
Just read a good article on Bruce Trampler from Top Rank.
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/06/sports/sp-matchmaker6
Guys like him and Johnny Bos are masters when it comes to moving a boxing guy along.
Interestingly though, can you imagine the list of fighter "styles" you would have to arrange as a manager to make sure your prospect was well rounded before breaking into a big-time promotion? Speed demons or puncher? Southpaw or volume striker? dancer vs. banger? Passive-aggresive counter striker/grappler vs. Cardio machine that sets pace? Sub-Savvy or positional? Controling clinch or opportunistic thrower?...List goes on and on. Feel free to add on with examples and strategies...
However, I should say though that there is a HUGE difference between "developing" and "protecting" a fighter (and his "record"). The way the UFC hasn't protected fighters (in general) is what won me over from boxing in the first place. Boxing was quickly becoming a farce that I don't want to see repeated with MMA(although you see it trickling in more as the sport becomes more mainstream). "No easy fights" should be a law. Great Budo.
I think a good wrestler with submission defense is the MMA equivalent of a slick boxing southpaw. Both are good at nullifying their opponents strengths and at times, even in slowing down the pace of a fight.
[quote]Keith Palmer -
Thoughts on this?[/quote]
YEAH. Thought: gettting tired of bugging keith to be my manager will you be my manager already!!!!!!!
its a tough call because in boxing it can take years to get the exciting fights to happen in mma they happen much easier... the wrong oponents however can ruin a fighters future so there is a need for good matching but id HATE to see it go the way of boxing
TTT
we do this as well as anybody, but you need to be able to train 2-3 times perday, your training is full time, you need to fight for the bills its hard to do when you are starting out.
Interesting thought: I was taught that no matter the major discilpline a fighter starts out with (Muay Thai, Wrestling ect.), as his game rounds out, his personality will express itself no matter what skill set is being utilizedat the time. If a guy is a aggresive volume puncher who likes to use his elusveness to gain position, as he gets more comfortale on the ground, he usually displays the same "style" in his ground work. Look at Fedor or Anderson Silva as an example.