Did Putin Win?

You have our President Elect claiming that the intelligence community is wrong or dishonest and highlights the words of Julian Assange as his proof.

People on the right are accusing the left of trying to delegitimize the election.

People on the left are arguing that we need to combat the cyberterrorism orchestrated by the Russians and that the election wasn't truly legitimate.

At this point, Putin's nominee has been elected and he was able to get the Republicans and Democrats fighting each other and delegitimizing both the Intelligence community and the Media.

Looks like Putin's "influencing campaign" was highly effective.

Did Putin win?

Thoughts?

 

no hes still the head of a fucked up country.

At this point, he was effective at getting us to just fight with each other and then turn on our Intelligence Agency professionals... and accuse them of basically lying.

lionsoul - 


At this point, he was effective at getting us to just fight with each other and then turn on our Intelligence Agency professionals... and accuse them of basically lying.


We've been fighting with each other for 2 decades. Our intelligence community has been spying on us for years. Putin has really nothing to do with it.

Remains to be scene honestly

I'm still not convinced that his actions had the reach some are claiming. I think at the end of the day the DNC lost this election on their own, nobody stole it from them like they stole the primary from Bernie.

I also believe that trump can be a vindictive motherfucker and that he truly loves America. If he is given real evidence of fuckery he will not sit on it... Even if sitting on it might be the right play long term.

I grew up in the age of America existing on a war footing with the USSR. I don't want to return to that. People my age remember fallout drills and the monthly testing of air raid sirens. The "bomb" was a very real thing. We need to have a relationship with modern Russia. The DNC is so angry that they lost and so unwilling to take an honest self assessment that they seem willing to play a game of brinkmanship that America can't win merely to cause difficulty for the incoming administration. That's not an America First position, it's a party first position.
And that's a problem.

im surprised there hasnt been more discussion on if those planes that 'crashed' in Russia a few weeks back werent retaliation from the US for all this.

Oh fuck, am i looking for conspiracies now???

"People on the left are arguing that we need to combat the cyberterrorism orchestrated by the Russians and that the election wasn't truly legitimate."

They are half right.  We need to clamp down on cyberterrorism.  But claiming the election wasn't legitimate is pure folly.  Unless they can prove the revelations were untrue then they have no case for that.

If I commit a robbery and my neighbor turns me in for the reward, do I get to have my conviction and incarceration overturned because someone snitched on me?

Usa doesnt need enemies to be powerful. Thats such archaic policy. It isn't necessary anymore. You don't have to create the Boogeyman anymore. 

Russia is fine. Putin is fine. They're not the bad guy. Stop all the silly proxy wars.

Someone lost and is looking to post blame on somebody else besides themselves. The left acts like Putin personally withheld Americans from going out or forcing them to go and vote for a particular candidate. It's actually a pretty good example of how stupid your elected officials think the American public is. Not only that but what we should be concentrating on is not who leaked those emails but what the contents of those emails were. I really don't give a flying fuck who got them or how they got them. I only care about the content. People should be burning down congress and politicians should be hung from the streets but our attention is so easily diverted away. It's almost comical. If anything I bet Putin made a bet with his gangster buddies that this is exactly what would happen.

Hillary not being president means that humanity won.

I don't think the state of play right now is entirely due to Putin but he has been effective in reshaping the terms of the post-Cold War era to Russian advantage.

At home, the US is weakened by partisanship and identity politics. Abroad, we're losing influence in more or less every sector. Meanwhile, Russia is loudly moving into the space we've abandoned and China is quietly but inexorably increasing its global power and authority. The US, from a power and prestige perspective, is on a downslope right now - and has been for some time. If we keep having these political knife fights, it's only going to get worse. 

Once you keep referring to Trump as "Putin's nomenee" it's tough to take you seriously

cruedi - 
lionsoul - 


At this point, he was effective at getting us to just fight with each other and then turn on our Intelligence Agency professionals... and accuse them of basically lying.


We've been fighting with each other for 2 decades. Our intelligence community has been spying on us for years. Putin has really nothing to do with it.

This right here

BubblesNS - no hes still the head of a fucked up country.

So even more so?

he is corrupt, has his opposition killed, can spread propaganda throughout his country and has a president elect of the US siding with him in an attempt to make his victory look more legitimate 

"People on the left are arguing that we need to combat the cyberterrorism orchestrated by the Russians and that the election wasn't truly legitimate."

Correction: people on the left and right are arguing that. Then you have Trump supporters bizzarely defending the Russians.

He won big time and probably has significant power over trump (they didn't realize the dirt on him and other republicans). 

 

As people have mentioned he in a way made Americans question our democracy and made us turn on each other. We see many conservatives defending Russia and that would've been unheard of before trump won.

 

Just like how Putin walked around Obama, you can bet he is getting exactly what he wants: Distrust of the American electoral process/democracy as well as power over trump. Putin has the upper hand

Release*

Soup and Beer -


"People on the left are arguing that we need to combat the cyberterrorism orchestrated by the Russians and that the election wasn't truly legitimate."



They are half right.  We need to clamp down on cyberterrorism.  But claiming the election wasn't legitimate is pure folly.  Unless they can prove the revelations were untrue then they have no case for that.



If I commit a robbery and my neighbor turns me in for the reward, do I get to have my conviction and incarceration overturned because someone snitched on me?

Even so, the democratic primary was a joke and the dnc and the left supported a criminal with 30 years of shit decision making at the highest levels of our government.

attjack - "People on the left are arguing that we need to combat the cyberterrorism orchestrated by the Russians and that the election wasn't truly legitimate."

Correction: people on the left and right are arguing that. Then you have Trump supporters bizzarely defending the Russians.
Again, I will say it...
Denying the Lefts false claims that Russia commandeered the election is NOT defending Russia or Putin. It's refusing to allow the narrative to be dictated.

You are making an emotional mistake that you believe to be an intellectual one when you stand on this talking point. You are no fool. But you are currently acting as somebody's fool each time you say things like this.

Nobody is "defending" Russia.
We can't even have a conversation if you come from that perspective.
I enjoy conversations with you, and we have much more common ground than divergent, but you are bootstrapping some serious bullshit here.