R1 - tossup
R2 - tossup
R3 - tossup
R4 - Shogun
R5 - Shogun
- Im a fan of both and was pretty torn on the figh pre-hand
- Initially, i thought Shogun was "robbed" but then remembered that some of the early rounds were pretty close to call
- After rewatching it, I still think Shogun was the better man but on a round by round basis, I just dont think he hit rounds 1-3 out of the park ie. no slam dunk rounds there
- Having been a few days from the fight, I find it pretty funny how many UGers turned on Shogun when he lost to Forrest and how it meant that Pride guys were on roids, comp was easier in Japan, yada but now are all on the Shogun wagon even though i dont think he necessarily did enough to clearly win the contest
...and of course now, Machida's been "solved," "figured out" when he was never in any serious danger or hurt badly enough to have been rocked or dropped or hobbled. In this way, it kinda reminds me of GSP/BJ I
- Now, of course, "MT was always better than karate" as well, well for starters, duh, in general, it always was but..........even the Shogun05 of Pride would not have beaten Machida imo.
This was a new, improved and more mature and polished Shogun. In that regards, this was the best Shogun we've ever seen so even though the odds were a bit out of wack, considering how untouchable Machida was looking (literally) and considering there were still some unanswered questions about Shogun and considering he never showed that sharp of a game before, Machida was def the solid favourite
- Also, Shogun always having a better kickboxing game than every other LHW out there and now showing the sharpest kickboxing that he's ever shown, I hardly think this means the rest of the div is gonna have a field day with Machida considering this new and improved and sharpest eva Shogun still couldnt clearly beat Machida
- BACK TO THE DECISION:
I think a lot of it doesnt have as much to do with the commentary (it was slighly skewed towards Shogun but no big deal, Shogun had the heavier shots for the most part anyhow) but I think this UG outrage has to do with Machida looking lost and human for the first time and that made Shogun look better than he actually was
Again...........I thought Shogun won.
there's no way round 2 was a toss-up. Shogun clearly won. I dont think Lyoto stepped forward once, he lost 90% of the exchanges, and he was defending to Shogun's offense the few times it was in the clinch.
Great Post Wasa-B...
as expected :)...we disagree on the final result but I thought it was so very close I feel a rematch is imminent...
How anyone can call robery either way is beyond me....Regardless of who won they need to settle the score.
Cheers
i thought shogun took it live.
on 2nd viewing, i think i weighed towards shogun but that it wasnt clear cut enough so maybe "tossup" isnt the right word but i dont remembered him "slam dunking" R2.
i thought it was 10-10 in the first, and Shogun took the rest.
he controlled the pace from bell to bell and outlanded Machida in every round. what the fuck else are you supposed to do.
Personally I had Machida...1,2,3 and Rua...4,5....for whatever it's worth :)
and I admit that 1 and 2 were very close...for me 3 was clearer
ttt
for the truth...
Jetster - and I admit that 1 and 2 were very close...
This is exactly my point.
I have no problem with thinking Shogun took those rounds, hell i thought he did too initially but I think they were "edge outs" and not "slam dunks."
For the ol "robbery" to occur, I think the rounds have to be pretty dam clear for someone.
Not sure Shogun took them clearly enough.
Mad Xyientist - there's no way round 2 was a toss-up. Shogun clearly won. I dont think Lyoto stepped forward once, he lost 90% of the exchanges, and he was defending to Shogun's offense the few times it was in the clinch.
Yeah I re-watched the fight and the 2nd round wasn't even close.
According to the UFC scoring system, it was a very close fight. According to actually watching the fight, it was not. I think even on the UFC scoring system, unless you're just being ridiculous, Shogun wins, but not as decisively. Especially if you interpret the scoring system like an idiot like Cecil Peoples does.
It highlights a huge flaw in the 10 point must system.
Let's say you have a 5 round fight and the overall balance of each round is as follows:
Round 1: 50-50
Round 2: 50-50
Round 3: 50-50
Round 4: 70-30
Round 5: 70-30
In that scenario the first fighter has quite clearly won the fight as a whole, but a 48-47 against him is just as likely (and just as justifiable) as a 50-45 for him.
Wasa-B, excellent post and I voted you up for it. Thank you for injecting some seriously needed common sense in all this madness. Originally I thought Shogun won a close decision, but upon watching the fight again and again, I ended up coming down to the same conclusion as Cecil and Rosales and giving Machida rounds 1, 2, and 3.
Bottom line: it was a damn close fight.
Joshel -Mad Xyientist - there's no way round 2 was a toss-up. Shogun clearly won. I dont think Lyoto stepped forward once, he lost 90% of the exchanges, and he was defending to Shogun's offense the few times it was in the clinch.
Yeah I re-watched the fight and the 2nd round wasn't even close.
Well, i just rewatched myself and though i give it to Shogun, yeah, it was close.
Ryase - All of the rounds were close to call but I felt Shogun won all but the 3rd.
No problem with that, in fact, thats my point.
Mad Xyientist - there's no way round 2 was a toss-up. Shogun clearly won. I dont think Lyoto stepped forward once, he lost 90% of the exchanges, and he was defending to Shogun's offense the few times it was in the clinch.
Sorry, man, but i dont think this is on the mark. Again, i gave the round to shogun but it wasnt as one sided as you make it out to be above.
90% of the exchanges? dont think so. Lyoto did indeed initiate attack forward more than once, he had 2 knees to the gut on its own.
Shogun won every round except maybe the third. No, no rounds were slam dunks because that implies something noteworthy. But he clearly won each of those rounds.
I don't know if the "old" Shogun is back. He fought well but this wasn't exactly a high paced fight. He threw maybe 40 strikes per 5-minute round, and Lyoto certainly wasn't putting any pressure on him.
" i gave the round to shogun but it wasnt as one sided as you make it out to be above."
Round 2
Lyoto MacHida | Mauricio Rua | |
11/21 | Total Strikes Landed/Thrown | 23/39 |
ive seen the stats but i still didnt see a one-sided round.
RE: "Old Shogun": this was clearly the sharpest Shogun we've ever seen, Shogun of Pride never fought this measured and precisely with the counter striking and strategy
If he fought as high paced or attacked without the measuredness, he may have been countered by Machida or at least he respected him enough before the fight and even throughout the entire fight enough not to barrage him.
Rickson's Aura - If you think Shogun won the fight, that's fine, but saying it's one of the worst decisions ever is delusional.
Agree with this.
I did give Shogun the fight but i didnt see a clear enough margin 1-3 to cry "robbery!!!"
"ive seen the stats but i still didnt see a one-sided round."
Outlanding your opponent 2-1 while chasing him all around the ring is as one-sided as a round can possibly be without someone getting rocked or dropped or nearly submitted.
Is there any conceivable scenario in any other sport in existence where one competitor can score twice as many times as his opponent in a period and not have it be called one-sided?