I noticed the full list of black belts from the official Carlson Gracie Brazil page and the Carlson Gracie USA page are different lists themselves.
The Brazil one has 109 total. It includes Moises Bormac, Ismael Miranda Gomes, Marcio Dos Santos, Marcos Vinicius Da Silva Lips that are NOT listed in the USA version. This list omits Suyan Lopes Quieroz that is on USA list.
http://www.carlsongracie.com.br/
The USA one has 110 and omits Vitor Belfort, Paulo Ricardo Oliveira Da Silva that are on the Brazil list. http://carlsongraciefederation.com/blackbelts.html
I know it's a long shot but anyone know why there is even this much of a discrepancy between the two OFFICIAL lists?
I think he probably removed (disowned) some.
It is interesting that it seems that every list seems incomplete. I wonder if it has anything to do with bad blood but just not as famous as some of the others. After doing quick searches on each name:
Moises Bormac is some lawyer or government advocate a blog I found claims he is a Carlson Gracie bb. Ismael Gomes seems to have fotos with Carlson Jr and teaches in Rio but makes no obvious affiliation with Carlson. Marcos Lips has a foto of a black belt on with Sr. Suyan Quieroz has a bjjheroes page that says he is a Sr black belt. Marcio Dos Santos bjjheroes page says he got his bb from Alves but he also trained at Carlsons. Paulo Ricardo is just impossible to find anything on. He has the combination of common Brazilian names it'd be like searching for a John James Patrick Alexander in the states.
I thought the expelled ones were mostly the more famous like Bustamante, Sperry, Liborio, Goes, etc.
Does anyone know the dates Carlson awarded these? 
SpeedKing9 - I noticed the full list of black belts from the official Carlson Gracie Brazil page and the Carlson Gracie USA page are different lists themselves.Looking at the photos I found on Google, I'm pretty sure Moises Bormac came and visited Carlson Gracie Amsterdam a couple of times, never put a gi on there (at least when I was there) but came to watch class and chat to Flexa (4th degree Carlson bb). Pretty sure if he's a friend of Flexa's he's legit. Daniel @ CGJJ will probably know more.
The Brazil one has 109 total. It includes Moises Bormac, Ismael Miranda Gomes, Marcio Dos Santos, Marcos Vinicius Da Silva Lips that are NOT listed in the USA version. This list omits Suyan Lopes Quieroz that is on USA list.
http://www.carlsongracie.com.br/
The USA one has 110 and omits Vitor Belfort, Paulo Ricardo Oliveira Da Silva that are on the Brazil list. http://carlsongraciefederation.com/blackbelts.html
I know it's a long shot but anyone know why there is even this much of a discrepancy between the two OFFICIAL lists?
shen -Nah. I did the original list for one of Junior's old websites. I had a list Junior and his Mom made up from after his dad died. Junior's mom did the books for his dad's school and, between her and junior, knew em all. If Belfort isn't on the federation one its a typo. He was on the original one I assembled.
I think he probably removed (disowned) some.
Well, there is THE list Carlson, Sr. himself made just months before he died. He hand wrote all the names of "his" Black Belts, xeroxed it and traveled around and gave a copy to a numer of his BBs when he visited them. I've seen that list.
I recall hearing about people who were perhaps "under Carlson", but did not get their BBs directly from Carlson. Instead they got it from one of Carlson's BBs. As time went on, they became more directly under Carlson. [Are those people considered Carlson Sr BBs?]
Also the inverse, people who were students of someone, usually one of Carlson's BBs, but Carlson physically gave them their BB. [Are they considered Carlson Sr BBs?]
Also, as I mentioned, Carlson "disowned" a few of his BBs.[Are they considered Carlson Sr. BBs?]
I think the "confusion" has to do almost entirely with people in one of the above categories.
The whole disowning thing is so stupid.
shen -Yea, the guys he was mad at were in every list I saw. There were very few guys he was still pissed at. The one dude he hated was on all the lists I saw so I don't think he and his fam were excluding anyone.
Well, there is THE list Carlson, Sr. himself made just months before he died. He hand wrote all the names of "his" Black Belts, xeroxed it and traveled around and gave a copy to a numer of his BBs when he visited them. I've seen that list.
I recall hearing about people who were perhaps "under Carlson", but did not get their BBs directly from Carlson. Instead they got it from one of Carlson's BBs. As time went on, they became more directly under Carlson. [Are those people considered Carlson Sr BBs?]
Also the inverse, people who were students of someone, usually one of Carlson's BBs, but Carlson physically gave them their BB. [Are they considered Carlson Sr BBs?]
Also, as I mentioned, Carlson "disowned" a few of his BBs.[Are they considered Carlson Sr. BBs?]
I think the "confusion" has to do almost entirely with people in one of the above categories.
But Shen does make a point about guys who got their picture taken with Senior, got a belt from him at a belt ceremony, etc... Who then claimed to be a senior BB. Which is why I talked to Junior when doing the old website about including a list for him and his dad. Some kid e-mailed me to tell me his instructor wasn't on the list and I had to tell the kid his instructor wasn't for a reason.
Also because there used to be a wiki list and dudes would just add their names. You'd see famous blackbelts like Busta, Pinduka, Flexa and then like "George Allen Fontaina, Turdknuckle Alabama".
Junior knows everyone so if someone has a question, just email him.
vidavaletudo -SpeedKing9 - I noticed the full list of black belts from the official Carlson Gracie Brazil page and the Carlson Gracie USA page are different lists themselves.Looking at the photos I found on Google, I'm pretty sure Moises Bormac came and visited Carlson Gracie Amsterdam a couple of times, never put a gi on there (at least when I was there) but came to watch class and chat to Flexa (4th degree Carlson bb). Pretty sure if he's a friend of Flexa's he's legit. Daniel @ CGJJ will probably know more.
The Brazil one has 109 total. It includes Moises Bormac, Ismael Miranda Gomes, Marcio Dos Santos, Marcos Vinicius Da Silva Lips that are NOT listed in the USA version. This list omits Suyan Lopes Quieroz that is on USA list.
http://www.carlsongracie.com.br/
The USA one has 110 and omits Vitor Belfort, Paulo Ricardo Oliveira Da Silva that are on the Brazil list. http://carlsongraciefederation.com/blackbelts.html
I know it's a long shot but anyone know why there is even this much of a discrepancy between the two OFFICIAL lists?
Moises has visited us many times, also together with Junior. He's the head director of the Rio correctional system SEAP, and actually ran a rehabilitation programme there. Using Jiu Jitsu.
I have rolled with him and he's a killer as you can expect. He wrecked his motorbike a few times since then, which jacked up his hip, so he hasn't trained in a while I think.
I'm not sure who actually tied his belt. He's been introduced to me, and referred to, as a Carlson BB. He was part of the Marcelo Alonso squad for daily training, but Carlson was responsible for overall guidance and promoting.
http://oglobo.globo.com/esportes/a-reabilitacao-uma-luta-7123741
http://www.graciemag.com/pt/2012/12/presos-com-bom-comportamento-ganham-aulas-de-jiu-jitsu-no-rio/