Rogie at least I know you do not dislike me:)
What you said was noone on DK's PPV's was as washed up as MAB and Paulie. We will agree to disagree. I think MAB probably has something left and paulie would to if he stayed at lower weights. As you said and I agree, his power is suspect, esp[ecially at higher weights.
Jirov was promoted for years by Arum and I thought Arum was still his promoter for Toney. I do know Dibella promoted the Mesi fight. I will check back but maybe I am wrong on that. However, Goosen is a former Arum employee at Top Rank for a couple of years so even ole Bob is producing other good promoters. He is no Carl King but hey, what can I say. I am still waiting on your list of DK prizefights that top Arum's. I have been waiting a long time now. What is the problem? Cannot come up with any? BTW Tyson Peter McNeeley is a bad example. Butterbean KO'd McNeeley as fast as Tyson did.
As far as Roy goes, I am stating my opinion and I like Roy very much as an announcer. But if he were interested in Hopkins getting a huge payday, why in the hell would he be yelling "good shot" every time Sturm punched and keep saying over and over Oscar was losing, all where the judges can hear him? If he had Bernard's interest at heart, would he not have been less vocal? Also, if Bernard beats Oscar he would want more than Roy. If Bernard has no payday vs Oscar, Roy is still in the drivers seat. Roy has a huge ego Rogie. I doubt veryt seriously he is happy that Bernard is getting ready to make as much vs Oscar as Roy has made in any of his fights. I think Ruiz is the only time he ever made 10 million or more although he has made over 100 million cummalitively.
Also, while you are out paying for DK con jobs and not buying PPV's like this one, you missed Castillo Lazcano, one of the better fights I have seen lately.
BTW, I have seen Braithright fight and I agree he is exciting but he is not PPV material at this point.
Finally caught the replay tonight.
It was a close fight and you could argue either way. Some folks were on here last week screaming about how Sturm won the fight by a mile and I just don't see how that's possible.
Sturm landed a little more and was the more accurate puncher, but it seemed to me that most of he lands were one punch at a time...not a lot of combos. Nice jabs and some nice defense. ODH threw close to 200 more punches and threw and landed a lot more combos while also showing good bodywork.
If your scoring for the busier guy the fight is clearly ODH's. If your looking for the cleaner punches landed you lean to Sturm. I think ODH's higher workrate and combinations is what won him the fight. If the decision had gone the other way I wouldn't have disagreed.
By the way, ODH physically looked like shit. It doesn't look like his body is adjusting well to middleweight. He's never had the physique of a RJJ or Mosely, but he's definately looked to be in much better shape at the lower weights.
Sturm won the fight easily. I wouldnt call it a robbery since we all knew Oscar would get the decision anyway, but Sturm won.
Oscar landed some good body shots in the first half of the fight, but those combos werent clean nor effective at any point.
What was effective was Sturm pummeling him with a jab. He worked him over all night with the jab, and started to really get to him when he went southpaw. I fnd it funny anyone would give DLH the last round. He flurried twice in that round and the pro DLH crowd went wild, but nothing landed clean, and in every instance other then those two breif flurries in that round Sturm was once again working him over with the jab.
It was close, but close as in Oscar kept it close in a losing battle. Sturm hit DLH more, and he did so at a better percentage. Check DLH's face then Sturm's if you want to see who did more damage as well.
Bernard will beat the hell out of DLH. bernard didnt look great in his fight, but he won all but one round, while obviosly fighting to not take many chances. Anyone who doesnt think Bernard will win after seeing these two fights is either a DLH fanboy or a Hopkins hater. Period.
Sturm was the "champion" (Yes in a divsion owned by Hopkins, they
were still fighting for a belt). That has to count for something.
As far as I know blocked punches, and flurrying at the end of a round
and not connecting doesn't count towards anything.
If Roy thinks that one reason that ODH had problems is because he
fought using the wrong style. Then what the hell is he going to do
when he fights Hopkins. If he ODH couldn't change his style/game-
plan against Sturm, whats he goin' do if he needs to change anything
against Hopkins. If he can't make in adjusts in the ring against
Hopkins, whats the point of evening showing up.
One thing that bugs me about ODH's weight. I saw a interview, and in
classic "Golden Boy" style, he talked about how surprised he was to be
fighting such big men, and how he is sparring with light heavyweightes
etc. Didn't he start he career at 130, so that he could move up all
those weight class, and win more titles in more weight divisions the
Ray Leonard. Wasn't a secret when he started his career.
Maybe that just bothers me, I look at a guy like Whitaker, a natural
135lber who doesn't have a great punch at his natural and best weight
and can go up to 154lbs and win a world title.
Rogie is correct. IWAN, your my boy but have you ever had Oscar losing a fight? Funny how RJ is all good with you until he speaks his mind on yet another questionable ODH call.
SuperConan....taking a look at ODH physically I don't think he's meant to be at 160. An it's obvious that his power just isn't carrying with him.
Whitaker never relied on his power. ODH had an impressive ko% at the lighter weights, but that % has definately declined on his move up the weight ladder.
Just because he started his career at 130 with the intent of moving up, it doesn't mean he's actually meant to move that far up. IMO he could easily be fighting 2 weight classes lower that he is now with a lot less risk.
"He worked him over all night with the jab"
What's interesting is ODH worked Mosely with the jab all night long and lost the decision. Maybe the judges in Vegas missed the chapter on jabs counting when it comes to scoring? :)
"What's interesting is ODH worked Mosely with the jab all night long and lost the decision. Maybe the judges in Vegas missed the chapter on jabs counting when it comes to scoring? :)"
One thing's for sure, they are scoring body shots. I see your point as far as the jab goes. I thought Sturm landed more clean, effective punches than either ODH or Mosley did in their second fight.
hater I think he lost the first Shane fight and I also thought he lost the Pernell fight and I have no problem with anyone who thought he lost vs Sturm. The fact is Oscar cannot close the show in big fights (outside of Vargas) and it allows very close decisions.
Hater what is Rogie correct about? He says it was a draw and you say Sturm won. You both cannot be right. Roy was openly rooting for Sturm. Anyone could hear that. I like Roy as announcer and I am not criticizing, only stating a fcat. I personally doubt that Roy was hoping the best for Bernard while openly rooting for Sturm. That is a contradiction. If Oscar loses, that is very bad for Bernard but that is what Roy was hoping for.
I saw it as boxing fan did. As I have always said, combination punching is very important to me. Sturm rarely threw any combinations. I also was very unimpressed with Oscar. He looked poorly prepared and had a bad gameplan. He was lucky to get out of there like he did.
"As far as I know blocked punches, and flurrying at the end of a round and not connecting doesn't count towards anything"
DLH landed more power punches than Sturm. Does that count for anything?
Especially since those jabs busted up Oscar's face all night long.
Hornbuckle, other than a few body shots I don't think you can call anything Oscar landed in the whole fight a power punch. This is another reason I take Compubox statistics with a grain of salt.
If Oscar won it was by outworking Sturm but his aggression was very ineffective IMO. Much like the Mosley fight, Oscar's little shoeshines just don't impress me. He did throw a lot more punches and I did like his bodywork. The clean punching was a wash for Strum IMO. Also, I still do not count him out against Nard. If he fights his fight he has a style that can give nard fits. At least for the first 6 rounds.
IWAN, I disagree with Rogie's scoring but he he's dead on as far the Jones/Hopkins situation goes. He gave props to nard all night. Bernard hasn't had a bad thing to say about Roy over the last two years. Likewise for RJ. I think it's safe to say the little fued they had going was just hype for a potential superfight which still might happen.
BoxingFan, what I am saying is that ODH had it planned to move up
that high. I remember reading Ring Mag. and one of the articles was
on ODH. The articles was talking about why boxings next superstar in
this position. All about why he had been knocked down a couple of
times. I believe Larry Merchant (spelling?) talked articles about how he
was starving himself so much to make weight, it was making him weak.
He went on to talk about why he was doing it, and his desire to move
up so high etc.
And I agree ODH moved up to high. I think Roy Jones moved up to
high as well. I think ODH at 147 is like Roy at 160, there best natural
weight. And of course would thrive at 154 and 168.
hater I agree that Roy and Bernard seem to like each other and respect each other. Roy even called him a "modern day Marvin Hagler" at the end of the replay. However, friendship and money are always two different things. Roy was even positive towards Oscar in reality but I think he still wanted him to lose. You cannot tell me that Roy enjoyed hearing Lampley talk about who was PFP, Bernard or Floyd. No way Roy enjoyed that.
My point is that Roy obviously was rooting for Sturm which is blatantly negative for Bernard. If he truly wanted Bernard to get his payday, he would have been much less vocal about Oscar. That is just my opinion and I really like Roy as you kinow as an announcer. He gives keen insight such as saying how Bernard was setting Allen up for the overhand right and then boom. I personally wish Roy talked more than he does. He seems to hold back at times and is usually extremely neutral. My point is a fight between Roy and Bernard is still possible asw you said. So if Bernard beats Oscar, he is in a much better bargaining position that he would be if he does not beat Oscar. That to me is undeniable. Roy is all about the money as we know. I feel down deep that he hopes the Oscar Bernard PPV does not happen. He is pretty sure Bernard will win and that is bad for Roy. It is not about Bernard personally, just the money.
I like compubox but it is a part of a fight evaluation, not the overall summary. Oscar was much better at putting his punches together but he also had more periods of inactivity. This wasw a hard fight to score. The 3 judges had the same total but there were only a few rounds where each scored the same. I thought Oscar did enough early to squeak it out but I cannot argue with a differing opinion. Rogie is very close with a draw.
I seem to have become good at pissing people off lately so I am not gonna argue with others opinions anymore.
Don't hold back IWAn. Personally, you've never really pissed me off. We disagree on a few things but I enjoy debating with you. You've shown me nothing but repsect.
"I seem to have become good at pissing people off lately so I am not gonna argue with others opinions anymore."
Good. Shut the fuck up already.
Just kidding IWAN :) I wouldn't want to see you holding back either; you're one of the more fun guys to argue with on this forum. Your posts are usually very knowledgable, and they show a great passion for the sport.
You do tend to run off at the mouth sometimes, but there's nothing wrong with a little smack talk. Just stay away from the racial stuff.
Thanks guys but Slick is not speaking to me anymore and I hate that. It is all because we disagreed on JMM and Manny and we kept going and going as if we were going to change the others mind when that was not possible. I never meant anything racial by the Marcos comment. We have a knowledgeable guy rooting for a fellow Philipino, I am only figuring that Slick is Philipino, and I made a dumb comment calling him Marcos. It had no racial intention whatsoever and is the only remark I have ever made on this forum in years that could remotely be considered as a racial remark. I apologized publicly and asked for Slick to email me or let me email him so I could apologize personally and he blew me off. I cannot do anything more but I do plan to be much less opinionated on here, I just plan on keeping my opinions more to myself, especially if they disagree with others.
Just to clear things up, the Arum threads were more sarcastic than anything. I do think he gets unfairly lumped in with DK, (he trails 2-0 in murders and a few years in jail time) but he has a history of treating his fighters well and making good fights at times but I am no huge fan. I think he is too greedy and makes too many shows PPV. I think that Morales Hernandez is a blatant attempt to take advantage of the mexican community, as he has done several times. Certainly if JMM Manny was an HBO fight, Morales Hernadez should be as well. Anyway, I am a fighter first fan and hate anyone who tries to sucker fighters.
Slick and IWAN not talking!?!? What's up with this...I gotta my head out of the sand.
You guys have been on this board for the 4+ years that I've been here, probably longer. You've had more discussions than I can count. I am ordering the 2 of you to work this out dammitt!!!!!
for the first time i agree with Gator. minus the marriage in vermont crackback of course.
bottom line DLH got tooled the entire fight and is lucky he is the main draw in boxing, because otherwise he losses a lopsided decision. look at it this way, if you reverse the names in that fight, and sturm was being called DLH, he would have won 9-3 or 8-4 easily. there wouldnt be any complaining at all after that performance. but, because he is sturm, and his oppoentn was DLH he got shit on with a bad decision.
its hard to say you win a fight when you get outlanded, outlanded at a better clip, and take the worse end of the punishment. all while losing the final three rounds decisively.
this now makes the 3rd fight he's won by bullshit decision. but i guess these judges were making up for that decision they threw Mosely the second time around. but regardless, he got his ass beaten by Sturm.
And Hopkins will tko him in a lopsided fight if DLH still decides to go through with it. i have my doubts now...
this gets more and more hysterical the longer you guys go on. DLH didn't get his ass beat, even if you think he lost. He got his nose bloodied, he didn't get knocked down or anything. Watch Foreman/Frazier 1 if you need a reminder of what an ass beating looks like
i disagree hornbuckle. you can get your ass beat without getting knocked down. Like i said, if you switched names and faces, Sturm would have won going away! DLH did nothing effective after round 5, and that says something considering Sturm won 2 of the first 3 rounds!
Again, the only reason DLH got the decision was because of his name. You know it, and everyone else does to.
Iwan is a bigtime DLH fan, so what he says means very little, no offense Iwan. Even if he was there. What does strike me odd is that the OVERLY PRO DLH HBO crew ALL said Sturm won. All four were ringside and all were emphatic that Sturm won the fight. 90% of the fans whove seen it say Sturm won. The compubox backs sturm in punches landed, punch percentage. He inflicted more damage then DLH. DLH couldnt even say he won the fight in the interview. He knew he had lost. Merch asked him a second time and he still couldnt anwser straight. Because he knew he lost. He looked and sounded like a beaten fighter. Jeez, what more do you guys want before you admit the truth and quit lying to yourselves.
You can still sleep tight knowing your boy got the gift decision. But at leats be real, and admit what you know deep down. DLH lost the fight no matter how you slice it.