Do all roid gains disappear even if you PCT/train

Looking at pictures of non TRT Vitor and wondering what the consensus is on maintaing gains here from guys who’ve cycled? 

Rogan always talks about women getting some permanent benefit but do guys also get that or do your gains all eventually disappear even if you PCT correctly and continue to train naturally?

 

What do you bronzed adonises think? 

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.

I have never done roids, but have a few buddies who have. All of them put on some major size 20+lbs while using, and continued training, though not as serious after. They all have maintained a good percentage of the bulk which they did not have before. Probably 10-20 lbs. Its weight they would have never gained naturally.

Cheater. 

Lean muscle mass doesn't just disappear overnight, water and glycogen yes but not lean tissue. 

jasperb -

Lean muscle mass doesn't just disappear overnight, water and glycogen yes but not lean tissue. 

Then why does Victor look like shell of his prime fighting days?

jpm995 -
jasperb -

Lean muscle mass doesn't just disappear overnight, water and glycogen yes but not lean tissue. 

Then why does Victor look like shell of his prime fighting days?

He's been unable to cycle willynilly like he used to and is much older than he used to be.  He's either been forced to use a fraction of what he used to to avoid detection or come completely off of PED's.  If you spent years being juiced to the gills and then had to drop it entirely or only use a tiny fraction of what your body is accustomed to, you're not going to look like you did after a few years have gone by post heavy use.  He still looks like a really fit and in shape normal person, its just that the before pictures are so far outside of the norm that he looks like shit in comparison.

Well for one thing, you have to realize that saying something like "taking steroids" is a pretty broad statement.

I know very little about steroids, but I do know that various types can have significantly different effects. It also depends on how much you're taking. Taking a mild dose of test is completely different than taking a lot of tren, for instance.

It'd be similar to equating a regular guy who does some TRX work & a little basic weight training to a hardcore bodybuilder or powerlifter simply because they both "go to the gym".

OJTT_Wiggy - Well for one thing, you have to realize that saying something like "taking steroids" is a pretty broad statement.

I know very little about steroids, but I do know that various types can have significantly different effects. It also depends on how much you're taking. Taking a mild dose of test is completely different than taking a lot of tren, for instance.

It'd be similar to equating a regular guy who does some TRX work & a little basic weight training to a hardcore bodybuilder or powerlifter simply because they both "go to the gym".

This.  Most people are so ignorant of the wide variance of steroids and PED's its comical to listen to them talk about drug use in sports.  Its basically an entire field of medical study that many people think only exists as "steroids" and don't even understand that different doses do different things.

sassen -

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.

This is a pretty good post and I think spot on. You have to remember that Vitor went cold turkey. No PCT of any kind. PCT isn’t fun, but cold turkey is even less fun. Those who have done legit cycles and gone both cold turkey and done proper PCT know what I’m talking about. Take the six weeks of feeling like an emotional wreck and take your Clomid. HCG too if you can get it. If you don’t you’ll be shut down for God knows how long. But it’ll probably be a lot longer than 6-8 weeks and you won’t want to do anything but lat in bed and feel depressed. 

So potentially a well thought out cycle and PCT could leave you some lasting gains then depending on how your body responds. It makes sense that someone like Cheick Kongo would retain a lot more than someone withDanny De Vito genetics. 

PCT and getting yourself feeling good again after the cycle must be key. 

 

Throwin'Knuckles -
sassen -

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.

Look at Sly and Lou. 

No sure if serious but Sly was busted with personal use HGH on his private jet a few years back in Australia wasn’t he? 

Throwin'Knuckles -
sassen -

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.

Look at Sly and Lou. 

They still cycling and will never stop. They cant stop. Their endo system would be non existent. 

Ben Gardners boat -
Throwin'Knuckles -
sassen -

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.

Look at Sly and Lou. 

No sure if serious but Sly was busted with personal use HGH on his private jet a few years back in Australia wasn’t he? 

That have to be atleast 8 yrs ago

sassen -
Ben Gardners boat -
Throwin'Knuckles -
sassen -

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.

Look at Sly and Lou. 

No sure if serious but Sly was busted with personal use HGH on his private jet a few years back in Australia wasn’t he? 

That have to be atleast 8 yrs ago

You honestly think either of those men aren't taking any form of external hormones?  That might be the silliest thing I've heard in a while.

sassen - 

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.


Bodybuilders allow themselves to lose all the muscle because being 300+ isn't healthy on the heart, also if you do mild gear you lose it all, if you do massive amounts you actually physiologically change your body forever and hold a certain percentage above natural limit.

You won't lose all gains. If you do pct, and continue eating right / working out, I'd sayyou may lose 30%, or so. You do lose some strength as well.

Plus, there's no reason to quit for good as long as you're cycling properly.

NerveBlock - 

Tbh I’ve always wanted to try a cycle but in my years of lifting, I have never met someone that actually sells it. I find this strange. 


Do you work out at a gym? If so, there are always a few guys that sell..they may be insulated but if you seem interested and legit, you will find them..

Throwin'Knuckles - 
jpm995 -
jasperb -

Lean muscle mass doesn't just disappear overnight, water and glycogen yes but not lean tissue. 

Then why does Victor look like shell of his prime fighting days?

Because usada would let him use HCG or TRT. He is basically test free.


Yes and Vitor is a complete shell of himself..I've noticed this happens to a few guys who get off gear..they lose gains, get depressed and stop lifting..they end up looking like complete shit

Vitor should be the perfect example of what not to do in terms of steroid use..

Altair -
sassen - 

It differs from person to person, the same as the results you get. If you train hard post cycle and keep calories up, you might keep 80% of the gains, best outcome imo, with continued training. But look at former pro bodybuilders. They dont even look like the same people. They lost.... 70% or more of lean muscle mass.  After years off training.


Bodybuilders allow themselves to lose all the muscle because being 300+ isn't healthy on the heart, also if you do mild gear you lose it all, if you do massive amounts you actually physiologically change your body forever and hold a certain percentage above natural limit.

I think if your on the level of professional bodybuilders and do huge stacks for years upon year. You cant just have no external hormones. Your body would just crumble and be a shell. All forner bodybuilders would have to at least cycle enough to supplement to normal levels for their age.