Do new leglock systems work in NHB/self defense?

Do the leglock systems that John Dannaher, Craig Jones, etc. teach work in a no rules or self defense environment?

Particularly, do they account for being kicked or kneed in the face with the leg that you’re not isolating?

Do they account for punches and elbows from a top position being thrown?

Do they work against people wearing shoes?

Thanks for any info!

FatBuddha - Do the leglock systems that John Dannaher, Craig Jones, etc. teach work in a no rules or self defense environment?

Particularly, do they account for being kicked or kneed in the face with the leg that you’re not isolating?

Do they account for punches and elbows from a top position being thrown?

Do they work against people wearing shoes?

Thanks for any info!

shoes make it easier to grip the heel but make straight ankle locks more difficult

News flash, John Dannaher isnt teaching anything new, alot of it is old catch wrestling.

NKcell -

News flash, John Dannaher isnt teaching anything new, alot of it is old catch wrestling.

Except it's not.

Tired of getting destroyed by Sambo guys BJJ "invent" something new that looks almost identical.

Well thats never happened before.

Turtle Lock -

Tired of getting destroyed by Sambo guys BJJ "invent" something new that looks almost identical.

Well thats never happened before.

lol

With Dannaher, its not the technique- you could learn that from anyone; It’s the methodology.

He could just as easily be teaching small engine repair, or how to write a research paper. It’s the thorough, well thought out method of instruction that makes it work.

Chango

Roger Gracie said something like 80% of it is not useful when Ground And Pound is involved.  That being said, I want to learn the system regardless, if only to defend against it.

FatBuddha - Do the leglock systems that John Dannaher, Craig Jones, etc. teach work in a no rules or self defense environment?

Particularly, do they account for being kicked or kneed in the face with the leg that you’re not isolating?

Do they account for punches and elbows from a top position being thrown?

Do they work against people wearing shoes?

Thanks for any info!

Danaher seems to place a lot of emphasis on controlling both legs while getting into the proper position before committing to the actual heel hook. For example, the inside triangle, or saddle, position, which seems to be his favourite, offers a great deal of control over both legs and doesn’t leave much room for strikes of any sort from your opponent. 

Here's a good example. At about 1:13 you can see what I'm describing. Both legs are wrapped up. There's a few moments at the end of the March where it looks like Cyborg could kick Ryan if the rules allowed for it, but if you watch closely you'll notice that Ryan puts Cyborg on his right hip prior to releasing the right leg to attack the left leg. That greatly limits the mobility of the right leg, which is the only tool Cyborg has to escape. It also means you can't generate a lot of force to kick. 

The one thing that would change are the entries from the bottom, as a lot of the DDS entries rely on the seated guard. However I'm sure they could make the necessary adjustments, and they also have a lot of good entries from too position. 

BenUkersWife - 

Ive never understood the danaher worship and nothing he’s teaching is new. 

People are finally beginning to see the effectiveness of leglocks, so they have a shiny new toy to play with.

I do like some of the control positions that he teaches, though. I had never seen them in my time doing Sombo or Shootwrestling.

Animal Mother -
NKcell -

News flash, John Dannaher isnt teaching anything new, alot of it is old catch wrestling.

Except it's not.

John Dannaher isn't teaching anything really new, he is just selling 80% old 20% new shit to younger people and most bjj guys never really did leg locks, so they don't know, it's almost like the kimura - double wrist lock.

Chains of legs locks with figure fours, running 3-7 locks in a row with inverted , reverse,  etc. Is old. I was doing this in the late 90's and it was considered cheap and not allowed.

NKcell -
Animal Mother -
NKcell -

News flash, John Dannaher isnt teaching anything new, alot of it is old catch wrestling.

Except it's not.

John Dannaher isn't teaching anything really new, he is just selling 80% old 20% new shit to younger people and most bjj guys never really did leg locks, so they don't know, it's almost like the kimura - double wrist lock.

Chains of legs locks with figure fours, running 3-7 locks in a row with inverted , reverse,  etc. Is old. I was doing this in the late 90's and it was considered cheap and not allowed.

In a very vague sense the moves appear the same, however the mechanics by in large are new. None of us are ripping heel hooks across our chest anymore. 

BenUkersWife -

Ive never understood the danaher worship and nothing he’s teaching is new. 

Where or who did you first learn it from. What time period. 

Every tool works under the correct scenario

BenUkersWife - 
Animal Mother -
NKcell -
Animal Mother -
NKcell -

News flash, John Dannaher isnt teaching anything new, alot of it is old catch wrestling.

Except it's not.

John Dannaher isn't teaching anything really new, he is just selling 80% old 20% new shit to younger people and most bjj guys never really did leg locks, so they don't know, it's almost like the kimura - double wrist lock.

Chains of legs locks with figure fours, running 3-7 locks in a row with inverted , reverse,  etc. Is old. I was doing this in the late 90's and it was considered cheap and not allowed.

In a very vague sense the moves appear the same, however the mechanics by in large are new. None of us are ripping heel hooks across our chest anymore. 

Nothing is new. He hasn’t reinvented the wheel. I hate the blind hipster styleworship in Bjj these days. 

With time, study and video archiving people are able to fine tune techniques and make them more refined. People don’t approach the RNC the same way today the way they did it in 1992.