How many of you get a chance to roll no-gi with college level or above wrestlers? I have done it in the past but not recently. The guys I rolled with knew a few submissions and that coupled with their takedowns and controls made them really tough. I wrestled with a guy who was bigger than me and we always went to a stalemate. He was usually on top but couldn't catch me in a submission and I couldn't catch him in one either. I might do better now but I have to wait for wrestling season to be over to try again. What I really found depressing about the experience is that I knew if this guy was allowed to strike I would be done for.
I get to roll with guys like that on occasion. Just makes my guard better. If you're going to do this a while, the glass is always half full.
Yes the guard most certainly gets a lot of use with wrestlers.
I used to do it. The wrestlers were extremely athletic and tough guys to train with. However, most didn't know anything about BJJ, except one guy wrestler who had a Brown Belt. Overall, good rolls and many were hard to catch in anything as they were so strong and fast.
Our school is near NC State so we have some wrestlers come over from time to time. Very fun to roll with because they react so differently than the usual BJJ'er. I'm a top game person but they definitely make me improve my bottom game because I can't get on top. They all have great conditioning too!
I'm sure the top level wrestlers are real monsters, as are the top level BJJ-ers. But the wrestlers that I've rolled with weren't really that difficult to tap out. Don't pretend that wrestlers are better than they really are. It all depends on the skill level. By the way, I have nothing against wrestling. I think it's one of the most interesting martial arts there are.
Here in PA wrestlers are very very abundent. Wrestling
mecca here .... to be honest. When you roll with a good
collegiate wrestler he will press you unbelievably. There
technique is awesome and they will push you to really rely
on your technique. Be prepared to work from your guard a
good portion of the time.
College level wrestlers are very difficult to handle even if they don't know BJJ.
I'm a pretty lightweight guy, and I found that they are pretty much impossible for me to hold top position on in any fashion, be it mount, side mount, scarf hold, whatever. They bridge so hard and fast if I manage to sweep them (rarely!), that I can never hold it. Not really surprising I guess, but frustrating nonetheless. Triangles and taking the back/RNC seem to be my most common finishing moves against wrestlers. That, and of course the guillotine off head-outside single that every wrestler seems to fall for the first couple of times.
The other main difference I notice between them and the average BJJer is that they work HARD. So much more raw intensity than the average BJJer. The ones I roll with will try to muscle through everything explosively.
I definitely roll with them regularly, and some of them can be a BEAR! I also roll with big strong football players...
I think if you have never experienced that kind of intensity it would really help you to do so. In bjj at the intermediate to advanced levels people really calm down and sort of "flow with the go" but with wrestlers you feel like they never want to give in defensively so its a constant forward drive.
I also would never accuse wrestlers of not having technique because when they wrestle someone their own size and strength technique makes the difference. I would just say that their technique involves finding the weak points as they drive forward.
I am only talking about college wrestlers who are currently wrestling as opposed to guys who did wrestling in high school. There is a huge difference in skill level.
I have a love/hate thing with rolling with active wrestlers.
I love that they really push me and my technique
I hate that they are so fuggin strong and explosive and most of the time are in much better shape.
Never underestimate a wrestler.
If I rolled with them on a regular basis I would either get my ass in super shape or get beat up. It would probably be the latter since I can't keep up with 20 year olds who are training everyday for wrestling. It is nice to have a roll once and awhile just to guage your progress though. My goal is to be able to beat wrestlers my own size or bigger in a submission wrestling sense. I am sure they will get the takedown and put me on my back but if I get the tap I will feel like I have pushed myself to a new level. I've done it with the gi but not when they were in their element without a gi. I have an aquaintence who is the heavy weight wrestler on the Air Force team I am going to try to roll with when wrestling season ends next year. I talked to him the other day and he is a 235 lb beast of pure muscle. It should be interesting.
I do know that if I had to make a mma fighter in six months I would recruit from the college or olympic wrestling pool because they would already have so much going for them in terms of conditioning, work ethic and the ability to secure a dominant ground position. The truth is in a street fight just about the best "martial artist" would be a college level wrestler. All he has to do is slam you on the pavement and maybe pound you a little on the ground to finish you off. Give him some dirty boxing skills and you have a menace.
It sharpens your technique. Both my brothers wrestled in college, one is a blue belt and wrestles for the USMC, the other is a purple and coaches HS. They have pushed me all my life and I get to roll with a lot of wrestlers all the time. I'm a black belt now, so I play with most of them and tap most at will, most, not all.
I never feel threatened to get tapped by good wrestlers, but they are tough to sweep or submit from the bottom. The best success Ive had against them is by working to their back and finishing with the rnc.
andre,
When you say "good wrestlers" what level are you talking about? Also do they know any submissions? I find that if a wrestler spends some time with submission grappling (with or without the gi) and learns some of the basic ways to avoid submissions and also to apply them it pretty much makes them twice as hard to roll with. A pure wrestler a la Dan Severn in his fight with Royce is tough but far less dangerous. Also do you roll with them gi or no-gi? I find the gi is a huge help if they aren't familiar with it.
I totally agree about the back control part. That's one position they can't bridge you off of them from. That was the only way I was finally able to beat my cousin who isn't a wrestler but plays football and stands at 6'8" and weighs over 300lbs. He could bench me off of him with one arm from mount and side control and if I was under him in the guard he could just choke me even if I used standard defenses which work on normal human beings. One time I was rolling with him and he benched me off the mount and turned to his stomach. On my way back down I managed to get his back and secure the hooks. Then I held on for dear life until he finally got tired and I could RNC him.
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I have wrestled with one university wrestler who competed, and did well according to him. We were even when he was on top in my guard. When I occassionally got on top it was over quick. Sleeve choked his ass repeatedly.
They scare me though. This guy was a spaz at takedowns so I would flop to guard and occassionally get a sweep. Hated training with him though as he had a huge ego, and it was always kill or be killed when we sparred.
Cherrypicker,
Did you roll with this guy without the gi or were you wearing a gi and he wasn't?
I do all the time. I was a D3 all american and we have guys in the class that have experience from just some high school all the way up to second on the Olympic ladder at one point. Being a wrestler myself I thinks that it helps me teach the guys how to transistion into the Jiu Jitsu game. I mainly play guard now because that is the most fun for me. With wrestling, you need to learn your weakness first becasue you can always go back to your top game if youo feel uncomfortable.