I am an MMA fighter/trainer but I can say that training with the gi does improve one's game. I have no idea as to why but it is a phenomenon that I have noticed over the past year.
Peace-
Cam
Imho, the gi's friction slows down the game, makes it harder for you to slide out of a bad position and it gives your opponent lots of handles to control you.
the gi is great for working on your defense.
and with no gi, your offense needs to be better, because if you're not using very technical subs and holddowns, you'll lose him in transitions.
just my opinion...
Hunter V- Eddie is a BJJ black belt under JJ Machado and trains w/ a gi every day. He just prefers no-gi.
IMO slower or faster doesn't mean shit. It's drilling the moves over and over that gets you good fast.
And I don't think it helps at all, other than you're getting mat time in. Every single person I've rolled with who's only trained no gi has been AWESOME on the ground, and always a sub threat. When you take the gi off most BJJ guys, this usually isn't the case.
When I train against good guys with a gi Im looking for pinhole sized opennings to attck
When I go to sub grappling tourny's and go against guys from a sub wrestler or some other no gi school, they are almost always to the point of out of control when they wrestle and I can drive a truck through the holes in there game.
One thing I will say is that guys from those kinda schools are always in damn good shape and strong as hell... but that will only get you so far
"nope, though you should train in what you like to do. One of the main benefits of the gi however is that the game is forced to be slowed down, alot of no gi guys aren't as disciplined to break down stuff and slow their shit up like say Eddie Bravo or Chris Brennan"
when was the last time you took a class at 10th planet? eddie breaks that shit down like no other. i love how you just throw shit out there like you know.
whaledog- you still managing fighters. i have a guy. contact me if interested at checkuroil@hotmail.com
The way I see it, and I could be wrong, is training with a gi is like training with weights on. Its so much easier to get caught in a submission that you may normally just slip out of with no gi. It just tightens up your game all around. Using Gi for offense is different game though.
Yes. Gi training = more training and that is good.
how technical you are is determined by how technical your training partners and teacher are, not what you're wearing.
in ANY SPORT, matching the competitive environment as closely as possible during training is obviosly the most effective.
But thats just logic for ya.
amazing.
Here we go again........................
Let's say Royler Gracie opened 2 new schools at the same time in Los
Angeles this year. One in Compton and one in East Los Angeles.
All students from both schools are 100% inexperienced.
The East LA school is strictly a gi school with intentions of producing
multiple Mundial champions.
The Compton school is a pure no-gi school with intentions of
producing Abu Dhabi and Grapplers Quest champions.
Royler spends equal time at both schools.
Within 8 years, a student from the East LA school shows tremendous
promise. His name is Panchito Manuelo Gonzalez Fernandez, but due
to time constraints, we will call him Pancho. He's collar choking
everyone, from the Copa Pacifca to Joe Moriera's Nationals. He's also
the leader of the LA street gang, "18th Street", and has claimed to have
choked out hundreds of gang rivals. (Apparently Raider jerseys are
ideal for choking)
This guy's ferocious! He's 235 pounds and very tall for a Mexican. He's
even got a giant tatoo of Jesus on his back, nailed to cross wearing a
Gameness gi.
After choking everyone he faced unconscious at the Pan Ams a year
later, 4 clocks and 3 ezikiels, Royler is forced to give Pancho his black
belt. A phenom is born.
Meanwhile over at the Compton no-gi school, 9 years has also
produced a monster, LeTron Jackson.
Tron, as he's known by his dogs, has developed a sick rear naked
choke and is also known for his dangerous guard (brutha's got some
long ass lizzeggs)
Tron is 55 and 2 in no-gi competition with 52 of his wins by
submission. Not bad considering one of his losses came at the hands
of grappling legend, Beast Ozinga from 10TH PLANET JIU JITSU and the
only other loss was due to his baby's momma trippin' at a tourney
once, causing Tron to lose focus.
Tron has become a serious grappling pimp, choking out bithes til 6 in
the morn.
With Tron sweeping the ADCC trials at the end of the 9th year, Royler's
top no-gi student enters the Abu Dhabi Submission Wrestling
Tournament the heavyweight favorite.
The tenth year of Royler's LA schools was HUGE!
Pancho took the gold at the 2014 Mundials, despite losing 4 homies
the week before in a drive-by shooting.
And Tron also added to Royler's gold medal collection by taking first
place at ADCC 2014.
Royler has once again proven to be one the best BJJ instructors in the
world, gi AND no-gi.
But as Pancho and Tron's popularity rises, so does their already
incredible egos, and within months they go from Gracie teammates to
arch rivals.
This is how it went down.
Pancho called Tron a "Myate" (Spanish for the N word) in an interview
with GRAPPLING magazine. Apparently Tron claimed to be Royler's
number one student on a popular grappling message board on the
internet, and that made Pancho furious.
"Shhhheeeetttt, of muthafuckin' course I'm Royler's number one dog,
you betta axe somebdy!" -Tron
"Number one? Fuck that myate, holmes. He doesn't even know real jiu
jitsu, esse. He's never worn a gi, vatto. Fuckin' myate!" -Pancho
Royler immediately kicks Pancho out of the Gracie Association for the
racial slurs and challenges Pancho to a no time limit/no points "NO-GI"
match against Tron.
Pancho accepts, and Tron vows to make Pancho eat a refried shit
burrito.
NOW HERE'S THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION:
Based on the info I gave you about these fighters, If you had to bet
everything you had on this match, who would you chose?
Pancho? or Trizzon?
eddie, dont use logic. thats cheating
Just a reminder, Eddie Bravo trained and competed in a gi for something like 7 or 8 years. His teacher, Jean Jacques Macahdo, fully believes in the benefits of training with a gi.
Unlike Eddie, I trained strictly no-gi for two years before I ever wore a gi. (I trained with Gokor, Oleg Taktarov and Richard Bresler (a bjj bleck belt).) I felt my game tighten up when I began training with a gi.
================================
No doubt, you can become an amazing submisison grappler without training in a gi. You can have a tight game, be super technical, beat top gi-based grapplers, etc. Of course, your training for a competition should match the competition.
But, that doesn't mean you won't benefit by changing things up once in a while.
Wearing a gi WILL help your game. Even for strictly no-gi comptetitors, it is a useful tool. Similarly, gi grapplers ought to train no-gi regularly. It's a two-way street.
Of course, the bottom line is that you should do what you enjoy. If you don't like training in a gi (or don't like training no-gi), then don't do it.
======================================
p.s. checkuroil had the benefit of training with a gi for a couple of years before he went to Eddie's. He, like Eddie, never experienced the switch from being a no-gi submission grappler to being a gi-grappler.
The bigger question is did they get herpes.
THE RETURN OF TRIZZ-ON
I love that story. If I ever have kids, I'm going to read that to them
every night.
I would recommend learning both.
"Just a reminder, Eddie Bravo trained and competed in a gi for
something like 7 or 8 years."
The gi didn't make my no-gi game better, Jean Jacques did. He has no
fingers on his left hand so was forced to play the overhook/underhook
game with his left hand his whole jiu jitsu career.
That made him 50% more prepared for ADCC than most brazilians,
that's why he "finished" everyone his first year, instead of winning by
stalling like most other brazilians who were weak in the no-gi game
because they weren't good with overhooks and underhooks.
I purposely played the overhook/underhook game with both hands
instead of the typical spider guard game my whole jiu jitsu career.
That's why I'm good at the no-gi game, I stayed away from the usual gi
game.
"His teacher, Jean Jacques Macahdo, fully believes in the benefits of
training with a gi."
All brazilians do, but when JJ and I discuss it alone, he agrees with me.
"All brazilians do, but when JJ and I discuss it alone, he agrees with me."
That wasn't what you wrote the last time you posted about JJ's opinion. When did he change his mind about the value of training with a gi? Just curious.
"I purposely played the overhook/underhook game with both hands instead of the typical spider guard game my whole jiu jitsu career."
So? Playing spider guard is not how no-gi players benefit from training with the gi.
Ironically, even though you are much much better at jiu jitsu than me, between the two of us only I have personal experience when it comes to transitioning from a stricly no-gi game to training with the gi.
I'm not saying that you beed to train in a gi to become good. You don't. I'm not saying that training with a gi can't lead to developing a "spider guard" type game that is not nearly as effective in no-gi. It can.
But, to say that there is absolutely no benefit to training in a gi is pure propoganda. And there are a lot of guys who transitioned from no-gi to gi who will tell you the same thing.
"I'm not saying that you need to train in a gi to become good, you
don't."
You are correct. That is all I'm saying.
"I'm not saying that training with a gi can't lead to developing a "spider
guard" type game that is not nearly as effective in no-gi. It can."
You are correct. Again, that is all I'm saying.
Why are we arguing??????? It sounds to me like we agree.
"But, to say that there is absolutely no benefit to training in a gi is pure
propoganda."
When did I ever say "there is absolutely no benefit"?
Gi training for improving your no-gi game is just as beneficial as
playing raquetball to improve your tennis game. Or playing roller
hockey to improve your ice hockey game. Or riding a ten speed to
improve your mountain bike game. Or learning karate to improve your
muay thai. Or playing softball to improve your baseball. Or eating
pussy to improve your salad tossing skills.
Whaledog, based on your last post, it sounds like we totally agree that
you don't need to train in the gi to become good at no-gi jiu jitsu.
Finally.
eddie...eating pussy really does improve your salad tossing skills. plus it gets the taste out of your mouth.
"Whaledog, based on your last post, it sounds like we totally agree that you don't need to train in the gi to become good at no-gi jiu jitsu."
We do. If you look back, you'll find that I've never argued that point with you.
But, maybe I misinterpreted what you've been writing, because I thought you claimed that training in a gi doesn't help.
There's a real benefit to wearing the gi - especially as a beginner. While you can get a tight game either way, the gi will give you a tight game faster.
By transitioning from no-gi to gi you learn to appreciate the subtle improvements a gi forces you to make.
whaledog,
was that how you won abu dhabi?