Does love prove God's existence-

Does love prove the existence of God? Or is love simply an extension of our ability to think more advanced than animals?

Sometimes apologists do take the existence of love and other such traits as evidence for the existence of God. At least, the constant persistence of humans that love is the way that things ought to be. Others would say that animals feel love too, and love is merely a behavioral trait sellected because it's survival value.

See the thread, "Problem of Evil: Panel Discussion" for more on this topic.

What makes you think animals can't love?

proving things is in the realm of science not religion...god is a religous concept which relies on faith..which means belief without evidence..believing something without having to prove it

animals who love one another, love their offspring, cooperate and help each other...they are the animals that leave more is consistent with biological evolution which is a scientific truth

and by the way....humans are animals.

bjjdna just scratched the fleas off the correct.

I think some clarifications are in place.. what do you guys mean with love? There are many types; selfish Love, atruistic Love (and what do we mean with altruistic Love in this context?) etc.

"proving things is in the realm of science not religion"

Actually, proving things is in the realm of science AND philosophy, and proving things in religion is in the realm of science OR philosophy.

"god is a religous concept which relies on faith"

The existence and attributes of God can be discussed in the realm of philosophy OR a combination of philosophy and science.

"which means belief without evidence..believing something without having to prove it"

Actually, faith is trust, trust and love of God. One can have faith in God even if they have good evidence or have rational belief in the existence of God.

Humans are not animals.

humans are animals who are aware of themselves to the point where they can forsee their own death and have developed morality- but the biological systems that regulate animals regulate us.

Yes Donna humans are classified as animals. That means you too.

In fact you fall under the biological catagories of:

Eukaryote - Animal - Vertibrate - Mammal - Primate - Hominid - Groovy Chick.


Humans are biologically animals. I know of no thoughtful Christian who denies this. The question is whether or not there is a spiritual element that humans have and animals do not. This would be the "in his image" referred to in Genesis since God is described as a spirit and does not have a body. The question is not are humans animals but are they mere animals? Some would say that humans are a composite of ape and angel and that is precisely why we have things like religion, art, music, suicide, birth control, moral law, trans-instinctual actions and other things which no living beast displays. Of course from a materialist point of view all of these differences are attributed to the advanced development of humans vs. the other animals.

In terms of the original question of this thread one of the problems with the question is that love is a word used to describe many different types of love in our language.  We seem to share storge and eros with the beasts but not filia and agape as far as I can tell.  From a materialist point of view love is not a provable thing beyond chemical changes in an animal.  If you can't prove the existence of love to a scientist then proving the existence of God from it is futile.

Right, after death we will see if we are or not animals. ;-)

Actually, let's not be so quick. It is my understanding that many biologists today do not believe that there are true ontological distinctions between species, genus' ect. If I am wrong, please correct me on this. I do know that some people try and say there are true ontological distinctions (e.g. Ernest Mayr).

So, if there aren't really true ontological distinctions, then humans aren't really animals, nothing is really an animal!!!

atheists love also, so I'm not sure if love proves that there is a God or not. Proof of God? For me I don't need any proof, because i already know the answer. others do require proof, we are peski inquesitive little creations, but thats the way God made us. :-)


yours in Christ


ttt for the lack of animals...

Oh, yeah, one last coment.

My body can be from animal origin.

But I am not my body.

If you like to level yourselves to animals, it is up to you. ;-)

I agree, Bludhall.

I´ve seen proof that animals care about each other too. (Not sure about sharks, though).

But I`m not sure the extension that having a culture (like the superior mammals), means they have free-will.

This is one subject where the Spirit´s Book leaves a window opened to interpretation, although they clearly classifies humans different from animals.

For those who are interested the Four Loves by C.S. Lewis is a great book to help clarify the different types of love and which ones we share with the beasts.  Its a Christian book in essence but for the most part it doesn't delve too deeply into any theology.  I think if people divided the loves into storge, eros, philia and agape there would be far less confusion about the word "love" which is virtually meaningless in modern language.

When people mistake passion and sex with love, they are in trouble, for sure...