Sorry for the FRAT up front.
I've started lifting seriously again in the last 4 months. Unfortunately, my diet has been shoveling as much protein into my mouth as I can. I've gotten stronger, but I'm also 20lbs heavier and definitely fatter.
I want to get my waistline under control. Recently married, and with a baby on the way, I'd like to live long enough to see my kids graduate from college. I don't want to quit lifting and want to continue making gains. Goal is to snatch 130kg and clean and jerk 150kg. I currently weigh 250lbs as of this morning and stand 5'10" age 36. I've never done a healthy eating lifestyle. I've lost weight on extremely low carb diets but it's not sustainable. So I'm looking for something I can do for the rest of my life and will allow me to still do the activities I like to do.
Breakfast:
8oz orange juice + 1 scoop whey protein (24g protein)+ creatine (just started trying creatine 2 weeks ago)
16 oz water + 1 serving fiber supplement
workout 1: 30 minute brisk walk (7 days/week)
snack:
small handfull of almonds
Lunch:
Burger/burrito/philly/etc.
salad - no dressing
Pre-workout:
8 oz almond milk + 1 scoop whey protein (24g protein)
Workout 2:
weightlifting 3-4 days a week. Cleans, snatch, squats, etc.
Post-workout:
8 oz almond milk + 1 scoop whey protein (24g protein)
Dinner:
salad - no dressing (about half a dinner plate)
maybe a bunch of steamed veggies instead
8 oz of some kind of protein (salmon, steak, chicken)
Before bed:
12 oz water + 24g casein protein
Lots of water throughout the day.
The thought is that I eat whatever is available during lunch so I don't need to worry about restrictions for working lunches and meetings. Also keeps me sane. Breakfast is fast so I can get to work on time and dinner is something easy because we're tired after work.
Does this seem reasonably healthy?
Too much powder, too little food.
Jorx has it dead right. My current "diet" has me losing 20 pounds in the past 8 weeks, and I've not had a single scoop of any powder. At the same time, I haven't lost a single pound on any of my lifts so far.
Im the opposite of Jorx and Shatner. When I am dieting I use lots of shakes. Here are a few bits of advice on your diet.
1. Ditch the OJ. Just too much sugar and shit is that stuff expensive now!
2. Make sure the Almond milk is natural unsweetened or you will be adding a lot of calories you dont need.
3. I would eat some kind of food instead of the shake for breakfast. Some eggs or lean meat would be a good start.
4. I understand what you are saying with lunch, but a really bad lunch every day can kill the rest of the good stuff you are doing. The real key is to make sure you arent starving at lunch everyday so you dont binge.
Not nearly as bad as many diets, but a few changes and you could cut out quite a few calories.
Jorx - Too much powder, too little food.
Yeah I feel a little like an apothecary. Just not sure what to replace the powder with. Also not sure the casein before bed is needed or if it's just extra calories.
Right now, since I'm unemployed I've been eating an ham+egg+cheese sandwich with this "double fiber bread" my wife buys. When I'm working though I never seem to have enough time in the morning. My old commute was over an hour each way.
Forgot to mention that yes, the almond milk is unsweetened. One of the only good eating habits I have is that I don't really like sweets. I used to use almond milk for the morning shake too but someone said you need sugars for the creatine to get absorbed. Something about the insulin spike helps it get into the muscles. I've never used creatine before so I don't know if that's true or if creatine really even makes that much of a difference.
Jorx - Too much powder, too little food.
Agreed. How are you not eating eggs for breakfast? Best food on earth!
Dont take creatine with breakfast, take it right before or right after you weight lifting session (i prefer after).
And you should be having a post workout meal less than an hour after you have your post workout shake. I prefer Tuna or turkey because it has a low fat content so it digests faster. If you hate cooking or dont want to spend the cash, just toss back a few hard boiled eggs.
As for creatine making a difference. Its hands down THE BEST supplement on the market and the only one that i would say makes a true increase on pounds you can lift. Just make sure you take it with enough juice and stay hydrated throughout the day. So many people dont get the advantage from it simply because they dont drink enough water. And no you DO NOT need to cycle it
^creatine in pill form I assume?
what kind (I have seen different variations, such as ethyl esther IIRC, etc, any particular brand a good value, how may grams?
someone mentioned previously that creatine should be taken with sugar, is this necessary, and is there anything NOT to take with it (that negates it's absorption"
(sorry for stupid questions, I know this is uber-basic stuff)
savage animal - ^creatine in pill form I assume?
what kind (I have seen different variations, such as ethyl esther IIRC, etc, any particular brand a good value, how may grams?
someone mentioned previously that creatine should be taken with sugar, is this necessary, and is there anything NOT to take with it (that negates it's absorption"
(sorry for stupid questions, I know this is uber-basic stuff)
Why would anyone take it in pill form? I usually just go with basic creatine mono. For the most part, it works just as good as the other types. The only reason i would go with the CEE is if you have stomach problems with the Monohydrate or if you have extra cash to throw around. I start with a loading phase and then take 5grams a day, every day. Yes, you have to take it with something like juice to help absorb it. Juice is better than just regular sugar products for obvious reasons. Its also been said that taking it with protein powder and magnesium is beneficial.
Here's a good one for a great price
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/store/en/browse/sku_detail.jsp?id=VS-1337
thanks Gorilla Grip
So, in your view, Creatine Ethyl Ester is just an overpriced, unnecessary fad, or is it worthwhile for someone like me who wants to eliminate potential bloating?
Like you said, not looking to throw money around, whatsoever, and I typically buy in bulk online once I have determined what works for me. When it comes to protein, multivitamins, and fish oil, I absolutely believe in getting the good stuff, even if the reason is as simple as "crappy protein gives you gas" and the good stuff isn't in the shiniest package or the most expensive, but I do believe in best ingredients, but at a good value.
A bit confusing that reviewers of the Vitamin Shoppe product you linked talk about having more energy for workouts, makes me think perhaps I should take it pre-workout instead of post-workout. If so, how long pre-workout?
Here is a great article on creatine supplementation that discusses usage, different types, etc: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_supplements/catching_up_on_creatine
There are varying views on whether to load or not. I personally don't feel it is necessary. If you load, you will reach your body's saturation point quicker, but will use a lot more of the product and more of the product will be excreted/waisted by the body and you will be more likely to have some of the physical side effects (GI distress, bloating). If you don't load, your body will still reach it's saturation point in roughly 28 days without as much wasted product and adverse side effect.
Also, in terms of taking it pre- or post-workout, I strongly recommend post-workout. Creatine has hygroscopic properties so it absorbs water from your tissues. If you take it pre-workout, you can dehydrate your tissues (ligaments/tendons/etc) and predispose them to injury and damage. This also goes to say you shouldn't take more than what you need and is another reason I am against loading.
One thing I am very glad of is that nobody on this board has jumped on the "anti-creatine" bandwagon after the ABC report on the high school football players with compartment syndrome was released.
^this article seems to clear things up for me a bit...but t-nation is a site owned by Biotest right?
The t-nation site is run by Biotest. As such, they do advertise their products. I personally like the majority of their products. Have never had GI distress with their proteins. No significant side effects from their creatine. They do push their anaconda protocol hard and some other high end supplements, but I personally stick to the basics for supplements (protein, FFA, creatine, circumin, etc). I can see a benefit for the high end stuff for elite level athletes/performers, but for the general population, you will benefit most from the basics.
If you look past the advertisements, they provide some quality articles/information for free, which is funded primarily by the sales of their Biotest supplements, which are high quality IMO. So for those reasons and the fact that I personally prefer most of their products, I look past the advertisements, read the quality information, and usually buy my supplements from them.
Just to clarify as well, I will rotate through brands of the supplements I do use, as to not develop intolerances to ingredients used by specific brands, so I do use other supplement companies. But biotest is one that i use frequently.
The more I read, the more I am confused on this creatine business.
kre-alkalyn sounds like the way to go for me, but some seem to believe that CEE and kre-alkalyn are bullshit.
Not looking to get bloated, surely there is a consensus on a product/type that does not have this effect.
To give a simple answer - basic Micronized Creatine Monohydrate is the way to go. The CEE and kre-alkalyn has been shown to be absorbed by muscles slightly faster but has not been proven to reduce the potential side effects. For the additional cost it is not worth it IMO.
To minimize the potential side effects of creatine supplementation, 1) do not take more than you need to, 2) take after workouts, and 3) mix creatine fully (this means no small clumps of the powder left in the liquid...it must be fully dissolved and mixed).
Does creatine actually help you lift more or is it more something that helps you gain size because of the water absorption?
^I have decided to give kre-alkalyn a shot after reading lots of reviews and information, a bit confused that the label says to take in the morning and pre-workout. I plan to take it post workout (as I would regular creatine monohydrate) and perhaps also in the morning w/ breakfast (unsure if this is necessary).
I have read many people say that they get bigger lifts after taking creatine pre-workout unsure if you "miss out" on this by taking post-workout instead, as I plan to, for the reasons described by Matt above.
your thoughts forum geniuses?
take kre twice a day or just once, post w/o ok?
nottheface - Does creatine actually help you lift more or is it more something that helps you gain size because of the water absorption?
I hope this doesn't sound like a dickhead statement, because I honestly don't mean for it to, but I know of no other way to state this. But if you have to actually ask this question, you need to 1) do some better research on creatine on your own and 2) probably need to address your overall dietary intake before worrying and concerning yourself with what type of creatine to take, etc.
It sounds to me like you are expecting creatine to be some miracle supplement that will pack on tons of muscle. You will get more out of focusing more time on good natural food intake right now than stressing over creatine. Once you have the food intake situation appropriately, then you can address you creatine concerns.
Savage animal,
I'm not sold on the kre-alkalyn creatine. For one there are too many variables in stomach acidity levels between people and some may not absorb as well as the products claim due to lower acidic levels in their stomach or other variables. Also to say that a "buffered creative" will digest and absorb more readily than the monohydrate will, especially without supporting research, is pretty far fetched. Even if there is some slight increase in absorption, I don't think it would be worth the price tag, IMO.
In terms of taking 2 servings per day, I would still just recommend finding out what your saturation level of creatine is and based on that figure out what your optimal intake of creatine would be per day (it is explained a bit more in the article listed in one of my previous posts). Assuming you still get 5g of creatine per serving of the kre-alkalyn (or any type of creatine for that matter), you are probably fine taking one serving per day.
^thanks Matt I'll check out the article
good point about nutrition of course, there are some cool tools online for counting calories, protein, etc., whether you are looking to gain, lose, or maintain weight.
I used to use "The Daily Plate" which is now a part of the livestrong website, you can create a free account at livestrong.com and quickly and easily see how your diet stacks up each day. Just about everything you can think of is already entered into the database (i.e. Trader Joe's Brown Rice w/all Nutrition Facts totals per serving), start typing and it will pre-fill good matches. Any food or supp's not entered, you can add them. Even my fish oil and multi are on there! Great tool for staying on track. Most "hard gainers" think they eat "a ton" but in actuality do not and of course most who believe they eate lite or clean (whichever is their goal) do not, helps to see it in front of you in black and white totals.
MattB ATC - Savage animal,
I'm not sold on the kre-alkalyn creatine. For one there are too many variables in stomach acidity levels between people and some may not absorb as well as the products claim due to lower acidic levels in their stomach or other variables. Also to say that a "buffered creative" will digest and absorb more readily than the monohydrate will, especially without supporting research, is pretty far fetched. Even if there is some slight increase in absorption, I don't think it would be worth the price tag, IMO.
In terms of taking 2 servings per day, I would still just recommend finding out what your saturation level of creatine is and based on that figure out what your optimal intake of creatine would be per day (it is explained a bit more in the article listed in one of my previous posts). Assuming you still get 5g of creatine per serving of the kre-alkalyn (or any type of creatine for that matter), you are probably fine taking one serving per day.
FWIW, I took Kre-alkalyn creatine for a while. I raised my bench, for example, from being able to rep 185 about 5x to 225 10x in about 4 or 5 months.
That being said, I then proceeded to blow out my shoulder. And my buddy used the Kre-alkalyn as well and noticed no beneficial effects.
I used creatine in high school and also noticed serious muscle/strength increases, so I dunno if the kre-alkalyn shit really was any different than the normal kind.