This is a sport based on the guard. It's not generic grappling. There will NEVER be negative points for guard pull in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
If you want to fight a complete grappling system, recognize that no one exists that is complete, especially BJJ. You will have to cross train in several and compete in "grappling" tournaments.
As it stands, in the case of a double guard pull the athlete who comes to top position receives an advantage point. This is the initial incentive for coming to the top.
Hillary - This is a sport based on the guard. It's not generic grappling. There will NEVER be negative points for guard pull in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
If you want to fight a complete grappling system, recognize that no one exists that is complete, especially BJJ. You will have to cross train in several and compete in "grappling" tournaments.
As it stands, in the case of a double guard pull the athlete who comes to top position receives an advantage point. This is the initial incentive for coming to the top.
boo-urns
Steve, I agree that it could turn matches into take down wars but I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. Making bjj guys as tough as wrestlers would be a good thing 
I'm taking it upon myself to learn judo. I dont like pulling guard.
GB Dave Jr - I'm taking it upon myself to learn judo. I dont like pulling guard.
judo is great for judo and street fights
but i think wrasslin is probably better for bjj comps
checkuroil - Advantage doesnt mean much. Why should takedowns be scored the same as moving from guard to half guard. Most fights would be decided by who's on top
Is this from experience? I'd like to see an example of an experienced BJJ guy getting his ass kicked in a street fight by pulling guard. It seems like a bad idea, I agree, but I haven't seen this happen before. I've seen the opposite of this many times.
If other people jumping into the fight..etc then grappling as a whole is pretty useless.
So you want to be on the side of the argument that being on the bottom in a street fight is a good thing?
checkuroil - Steve, I agree that it could turn matches into take down wars but I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. Making bjj guys as tough as wrestlers would be a good thing
Bjj is not wrestling. Remember the no strength thing?
checkuroil - Steve, I agree that it could turn matches into take down wars but I don't think that's the worst thing in the world. Making bjj guys as tough as wrestlers would be a good thing
I don't disagree at all with the second part of your post at all.
However, collegiate wrestling has lost a lot of the emphasis on pinning that it used to haeve (largely, IMO, due to the implementation of the technical fall). I don't want to see the same thing happen to BJJ. There's already a takedown-intensive form of BJJ in judo.
deepu -
Bjj is not wrestling. Remember the no strength thing?
BJJ is about effective and efficient use of strength. Not using natural physical attributes in a competition scenario is silly.
Hillary -deepu -
Bjj is not wrestling. Remember the no strength thing?
BJJ is about effective and efficient use of strength. Not using natural physical attributes in a competition scenario is silly.
Agreed when competing, but you can do bjj for life. Wrestling not so much, too much wear and tear.
This is a thread about competitive Jiu Jitsu.
The Noose, hit the nail on the head;
"Tournament jiu jitsu is a sport, not a fight. Its a game. Of course that's been said a million times. I just don't understand why people are so irritated by a tactic used to win a game."
I got into jiu-jitsu because I wanted to participate in a competitive sport. I have no interest in self defense or street fighting. I understand bjj has its roots in self defense, but that's not why I personally got involved.
What's funny is freestyle or greco roman wrestling has absolutely no ties to mma or nhb, yet those athletes seem to do fine in mma competition. I'm sure you never hear collegiate wrestling coaches say 'Shooting like that will get you kneed to oblivion in mma!' Or, 'Watch that guillotine if you're going to go for that takedown.' Or, 'Good luck trying that on concrete!' Yet again, they seem to make that transition fine.
As an avid guard puller, I think it should be penalized. NAGA penalizes it in no-gi. I'll admit my takedowns stink. If my opponent can intimidate me to pull guard he should get points. If I fake him out and he pulls guard, I should get points.
I agree that 5-6 minutes is not a lot of time if 3 are fighting for a takedown. But if you are not attacking straight from the guard pull, then you need to be penalized.
But scooting is a whole deal by itself and should be DQ'ed.
Hillary - This is a thread about competitive Jiu Jitsu.
And that should stop me from giving my opinion on the essence of bjj?
checkuroil - So you want to be on the side of the argument that being on the bottom in a street fight is a good thing?
No, I said it seems like a bad idea but I'd like to see some examples of where it HAS been a bad move by someone.
I pray for a day when all street fight videos on youtube start from a double guard pull. ;)
I pull guard IMMEDIATELY in 95% of my matches. And I think I should be somehow penalized for it. Nothing major but perhaps giving the guy on top an advantage. Ive been in matches where the guy pulls guard on me and the match ends in a draw with him getting smashed from the top the entire time. Yet he wins the ref decision because bjj is about the guard. Absurd. If you pull guard it is up to you to sweep or submit the guy.
Making bjj into a strictly sportive aspect is dangerous to its preservation and relevance.
I think I've competed in tournaments where they gave you different scores for takedowns depending on where you landed.... like 3 points for a TD into dominant position.... 2pts for landing in 1/2 guard, and 1 point landing in guard. That is a much better system than just getting 2 pts, regardless of where you end up.
BJJ is already pretty much irrelevant for MMA. Look at how many top guys get crushed in MMA. Galvao, Maia, MG, Roger, and Einemo are all examples of this.
"BJJ needs less rules, no....wait bjj needs even more rules....actually wait...I can't even decide!"