Double-Leg Against A Swordsman

Underground
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I seem to recall someone mentioning seeing this in a period combat manual (though I can't remember which thread it was in).

Does this ring a bell with anyone?

I'm currently writing a paragraph discussing the relative merits of modern Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestling in a real combat situation, and would like to use this image if I could get hold of it.

I'm trying to make sense of a passage in Plato. He claims that leg-throws shouldn't be part of wrestling in his ideal state, since leg-throws are useless in battle. To try and establish what he might have meant, I'm discussing whether Greco-Roman would work better than Freestyle in a combat situation.

For example:

Greco guys are good at clinching. They could adapt this skill for dealing with an armed opponent, by controlling his weapon arm in a clinch. They would also have good tactile sensitivity, because they're so used to clinching.

On the other hand, Freestyle guys are good at shooting-in for a single or double-leg. Paul Vunak recommends this as his preferred knife defence (if he can't run away or get a better weapon).

Obviously, there are risks to either approach. I'm just going to offer a bunch of theories, and let my readers decide what Plato really meant.

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You can see double-leg takedowns as applicable to two-handed use in Jakob Sutor's early 17th century manual, and there may be similar stuff in Joachim Meyer's treatise (circa 1570), as well as earlier 15th century German fechtbuchs.

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Thanks, I'll look for them.

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Got it!Here's the site (though it's in German):http://www.freifechter.org/sutor/sutor_ls1.htm

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I'm obviously doing something wrong...

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Dang it!

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It would seem to me there would be more practical things to do than go for single/double leg take downs against an armed oppenent.

The way we practice knife fighting there is no way I can see to shoot in without getting your throat cut.

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double post

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TFS,

short on time - i only checked first pic

use "http://www.thehaca.com/talhoffer/jpgs/Plate%2034%20copy.jpg"

damn, i cannot even post the code to help you

you know about how to post images

use the above url

HTH

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"The way we practice knife fighting there is no way I can see to shoot in without getting your throat cut."

Yeah, it's not something I would go for myself. In Paul Vunak's defence, he says it's a last resort (if you can't run, and you can't grab a weapon), and that you will probably get cut.

BTW, are you guys taught any hand vs. knife stuff, or just knife vs. knife stuff?

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With two-handed swords, the shoot seems more than possible--far more likely to be successful than if the opponent had a shorter, one-handed weapon.

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I'm hopeless...

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Thought you folks might find this interesting...

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HA!

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it worked!!!!! u got it!!!

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From Paulus Hector Mair's fechtbuch circa 1540--a clinch with 2-handers...