Double-Leg Against A Swordsman

I seem to recall someone mentioning seeing this in a period combat manual (though I can't remember which thread it was in).

Does this ring a bell with anyone?

I'm currently writing a paragraph discussing the relative merits of modern Greco-Roman and Freestyle wrestling in a real combat situation, and would like to use this image if I could get hold of it.

I'm trying to make sense of a passage in Plato. He claims that leg-throws shouldn't be part of wrestling in his ideal state, since leg-throws are useless in battle. To try and establish what he might have meant, I'm discussing whether Greco-Roman would work better than Freestyle in a combat situation.

For example:

Greco guys are good at clinching. They could adapt this skill for dealing with an armed opponent, by controlling his weapon arm in a clinch. They would also have good tactile sensitivity, because they're so used to clinching.

On the other hand, Freestyle guys are good at shooting-in for a single or double-leg. Paul Vunak recommends this as his preferred knife defence (if he can't run away or get a better weapon).

Obviously, there are risks to either approach. I'm just going to offer a bunch of theories, and let my readers decide what Plato really meant.

You can see double-leg takedowns as applicable to two-handed use in Jakob Sutor's early 17th century manual, and there may be similar stuff in Joachim Meyer's treatise (circa 1570), as well as earlier 15th century German fechtbuchs.

Thanks, I'll look for them.

Got it!Here's the site (though it's in German):

I'm obviously doing something wrong...

Dang it!

It would seem to me there would be more practical things to do than go for single/double leg take downs against an armed oppenent.

The way we practice knife fighting there is no way I can see to shoot in without getting your throat cut.

double post


short on time - i only checked first pic

use ""

damn, i cannot even post the code to help you

you know about how to post images

use the above url


"The way we practice knife fighting there is no way I can see to shoot in without getting your throat cut."

Yeah, it's not something I would go for myself. In Paul Vunak's defence, he says it's a last resort (if you can't run, and you can't grab a weapon), and that you will probably get cut.

BTW, are you guys taught any hand vs. knife stuff, or just knife vs. knife stuff?

With two-handed swords, the shoot seems more than possible--far more likely to be successful than if the opponent had a shorter, one-handed weapon.

I'm hopeless...

Thought you folks might find this interesting...


it worked!!!!! u got it!!!

From Paulus Hector Mair's fechtbuch circa 1540--a clinch with 2-handers...