Makes total sense. I think what I was trying to say was that his understanding of what the opponent needs to be in the receiving end of (the goal of the technique), is more important than how you dish it out (ie how to do a technique). Which was probably the most important thing for him to model for you. And now you know how to do it for yourself.
This is where I’m still trying to figure it out myself. I still think it might be beneficial to explain the mechanics of something, but they should become a hard rule on how to do a technique. To strangle someone, you generally need to close off both carotid arteries. How you actually do that will vary (triangles, darce, RNC etc). I do like to show some specifics here though, but mostly do that our training partners don’t go home with a tweaked neck
Again, his gym has been around for decade and created NOBODY with this supposed supreme system. That is enough to tell you its shit.
His prodigy blue belt who he claimed could beat competitive black belts was choked out in the first round at NoGi worlds…wait for it…by a kid that trains and drills traditionally.
Years ago I watched a 15:00 minute sweep video by one of these smartest guys in the room instructors and was confused as fuck after. Saw exactly the same sweep in a 1:30 video by an OG coral belt instructor and got it.
More is not better in BJJ.
The proof is also in the pudding. This ecological guy hasn’t created shit and neither has Danaher. MAYBE 1-2 guys that would excel training in a garage. Mostly they have just taken existing guys and let them do their thing or have promised of the “future” that never seems to come while the traditional perennial instructors consistently crank out champs and top level guys by the dozens.
As I mentioned earlier, I think the greatest value for this type of training is for the absolute beginners.
Spend an hour with noobs explaing how to do dlr, and an hour with other noobs explaining to simply focus on hooking the back of the legs with their shoelaces and grabbing any ankle that comes near them.
The second group will get the gist of the position better, and will be harder to pass.
The first group will be tangled up in the minutiae of the “correct” way to do the dlr. And if any of the directed moves fail they will be left floundering.
What are you talking about?
They were winning at a high level long before “the inheritance.” And for guys that train this sensational system every day and train only for ADCC got smoked by guys that again…train the antiquated systems of old.
it’s not fair to say his gym has been doing this system for a decade, because he’s only been doing it for a few years
it’s not fair to say he’s produced nobody. Even if I just stick to the example of the Corbre brothers they are extremely high level competitors who have won big prestigious competitions
I think the system is suboptimal and I also think Greg can be a dick. He has produced quality grapplers.
Again, the “champion” argument is a straw man. There is more to competition than just training. Competing is a skill in itself, you gotta give people time to get better at it.
Also, it’s very hard to judge someone’s performance when they are at a level that you might not be. Just because Greg’s blue belt lost in the ADCC open (or trials?) that doesn’t mean the system doesn’t work. How would you fair against the kid?
I’d sweep that kid and squish him into a puddle on the mats. I’m not good enough to win trials or any of he ibjjf majors at black, but there is no blue belt I saw at worlds I wouldn’t beat.
But that’s beside the point. I personally think everything before advanced and black belt level doesn’t matter. I don’t judge systems on colored belt divisions, which are basically just a competition for “best guy who isn’t good yet”. I’m interested in who is the best primarily, how to get competent as quickly as possible is less interesting to me.
I think there’s something missing in this part of the story.
“Signal” can come from something that happens earlier on, and you’re left with enough time for the theory to manifest itself in practice.
And something like that, I think, has to happen for the action to take place. We do get A signal, and we DO go for whatever action we deem appropriate for that particular signal. It happens unconsciously and extremely quickly, of course. But it can also get faster and faster. With practice we get better at spotting signals, as well as at reacting to them.
Our neural pathways connected to respective actions (and cues) get quicker and thicker and they get more myelin (that’s what Coyle says in Talent code).
A story like that is what Epstein tells in his Sports gene (IIRC), too. He also points out that the timeframes from the time the ball starts flying to the hit are too quick, so the best players react to something from earlier.
And it makes sense.
Btw, I’d like to add that I enjoy reading your posts and outlook and I hope there’s more to come.
Danaher was an integral part in whole of DDS, New Wave, and B-Team.
They are all superb competitors as well as superb technically.
Nowadays we can see ADCC main tournament filled with them.
If he hasn’t created anything it’d be hard to say anyone has created anything.
John is a collector of techniques. He is a walking, living, breathing meta analysis. I wouldn’t say he created or invented anything. And I’m a huge fan of his and have watched most of his instructionals, or at least parts of them.
He hasn’t created anything, but he has collected and combined techniques from various instructors and martial arts. And he’s spent more time watching film than probably any other person, or at the very least the vast majority.
He collects techniques other people have created and then puts them into a framework where they make sense to him and people like him.
I’m not sure that the professional ecological people would say that direct instruction has no place either. Just under the right context. I think they would also say that there is some overlap between ecological theory and the direct instruction method as well.
Your point about how we can train ourselves to recognize the right opportunity is the key concept behind the ecological approach. The theory just disagrees with what is responsible for that outcome, and as a result they disagree about the best method to train it. The ecological theory would suggest that it is more important to train the scenario where you get a lot of repetitions at recognizing the opportunity to act (what they call an “affordance”) instead of practicing the correct mechanics of the technique needed at that exact fleeting moment in time. Especially in a dynamic environment where multiple opportunities present themselves simultaneously. So, more repetitions at solving the problem in a live scenario, and less static repetitions of techniques against an unresisting opponent.
Another example of this might be, what is the best way to hold your underhook when in the standing position? If you look it up on YouTube, you will find that a lot of people are pretty dogmatic that your elbow needs to be elevated. They will also then proceed to demonstrate the techniques where their elbow actually drops though. But, one obvious benefit for keeping the elbow elevated would be to prevent the short arm lock counter to the underhook (lots of injury videos on YouTube). However, the ecological approach would be to say the most important part of the underhook position is not where your elbow is, but rather what is the intention of your underhook? A low elbow might present danger of the short arm lock, but it is also much better at snapping your opponent down into a front headlock. So really the focus should be on “intentionality” and to not bog yourself down with the minor details about how to do it.
While it is not a comprehensive system yet, I play a lot of my standup games with three “universal goals” in mind: pick up a leg, grab their head, or grab their back (bodylock). Those are the main goals of any standing encounter (for me at least). So then it’s just a matter of tying up with an opponent in any desired manner, and executing towards those three goals. Interestingly enough, I find that by attacking one, you present yourself with the opportunity for one of the others. Then it’s just a matter of practicing from the leg, the head, and the back to get the opponent to the mat and hold them down there. Then combined both games into one.
There are a lot of techniques that might not get addressed with those games I am working on right now, but I’m still playing with it. They do seem to offer those who are less athletic (such as myself) a little bit of a system to use against the young bucks though.
I should also add that I play with a lot of foot sweeps in those games too, so not sure where that fits in. Maybe part of the game would be to see if you can make your opponent step forward, backward, or side ways too. Which not only sets up the foot sweeps, but some of the above attacks as well. Fun part of the games is that the defender gets just as much practice as the attacker too. They don’t have to wait their turn to practice the move now.
