Bump!
Midweek bump!
Even though this thread has nothing to do with steroids, fighter pay, how fake Jon Jones is, or how Greg Jackson makes fighters boring, it's worthy of a bump.
Jones's length to weight ratio is also much greater than everyone in his weight class. And, the longer the elbow, the more damage (since it is a solid object from shoulder to elbow i.e. lever).
But yeah, I would never consciously throw an elbow on a retreating opponent unless I knew I was accelerating at a higher rate than him.
A lot of new students to kickboxing have trouble landing push kicks, and the reason is because they often associate striking with being aggressive, and so instead of using it as a counter to incoming movement, they use it on a retreating opponent which usually just leaves them one giant step closer to the opponent without a successful strike.
Def. nice article as always. I was curious about where your expertise comes from as well. Just out of curiousity.
Anyways, I was a little surprised by your answer about what rashad should've done. I would think that it would be a good time to punch his hands out of the way and drop for a single...where you could possibly come around and take the back as the elbow misses. Especially since the standing mma elbow isn't going to be 12-6 like some of those devastating ones in the Corbett highlight. Maybe you were only thinking in terms of countering via striking?
sside maurice - 12 to 6 does not refer to the position of your body. 12 is always up towards the sky and 6 is always down toward the floor, regardless of which way the fighters are facing. That's why you can't throw 12 to 6 while laying on your back.
Correct, so a fighter on his back throwing an elbow parallel to his center line would be a 9-3 elbow.
However, you can absolutely throw a 12-6 elbow from your back, ala Remco Pardoel x Orlando Weit.
mrgoodarmbar - Def. nice article as always. I was curious about where your expertise comes from as well. Just out of curiousity.I was mainly thinking striking, but controling someone's hands seems to be a real deterent of the shot. There was no way Overeem should have been able to throw standing knee strikes at Lesnar without getting his leg grabbed, but he pulled it off through hand control.
Anyways, I was a little surprised by your answer about what rashad should've done. I would think that it would be a good time to punch his hands out of the way and drop for a single...where you could possibly come around and take the back as the elbow misses. Especially since the standing mma elbow isn't going to be 12-6 like some of those devastating ones in the Corbett highlight. Maybe you were only thinking in terms of countering via striking?
I suspect Jones' hand fighting as a wrestler is also excellent and he would be well prepared for the push of his hands away. Of course anything would be better than standing there and taking those elbows. I have as few answers for Jones hypothetically as his opponents have done in reality so far.
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because aoki is not good at striking and jones is
Wasa-B - because aoki is not good at striking and jones is
Insightful.
Jack Slack -Wasa-B - because aoki is not good at striking and jones is
Insightful.
The truth often does not need to move beyond the bottom line. Breaking down Shinya Aoki's failure at a standing elbow attempt against Eddie Alvarez seems to be one of those imo.
Wasa-B -Having "good striking" isn't an answer to anything.Jack Slack -Wasa-B - because aoki is not good at striking and jones is
Insightful.
The truth often does not need to move beyond the bottom line. Breaking down Shinya Aoki's failure at a standing elbow attempt against Eddie Alvarez seems to be one of those imo.
Shogun has "good striking" but got outstruck by Hendo because he fought like an idiot. Concepts are more important than pretending striking is a quality.
Absolutely agree on Shogun vs Dan and im actually still upset at both Shogun and Aoki for giving Dan and Eddie the fights they wanted on a silver platter.
However, striking isn't a quality? Huh? Lets not pretend its really worth rating Shinyas. It would be like breaking down what James Tony did wrong against Randy against Randy's grappling. Shinya had absolutely no business throwing that elbow at Eddie in the first place.
Aoki i thought would be the last person to fall to falling in love with striking and getting away from his strength. He is very good at sizing up his opponent's range and closing the distance and becoming more knowledgable in striking would only help that as long as he used it to set up his tds.
But out the gate, his footwork and movement looked terrible like he was thinking striking first. Eddie conversely looked perfect in staying active, ready to counter and keeping his distance.
I gotta take a shit....will be back.
I'm totally lost why Aoki's elbow shouldn't be technically instructional. Failures are often more educational than successes. Dismissing the how from the why doesn't help him or anyone else learn any more than an advanced striking manual containing a single sentence of "be the better striker" does not make for a good resource.
Continuing along your examples, Handy's low single against Toney can be very persuasive in the proper context. Am I talking to a boxer thinking about trying out mma? I have had that conversation at least once in the last year. Now, granted the low single is rarely used, but I don't think it I should ignore it in that conversation. Why did he chose that technique over a clinch (his prefered tool) or a shot from striking range? In context, that question has value.
Writing that last post got me thinking about tactical blunders.
Jack, I think you should pen a list for "getting caught" with your top 10, 15, 20, whatever, biggest or favorite oopses in mma. Chuck-Page II or Chuck-Rashad, for example.