Electronic Stimulus Machines???

I was wondering what you guys think about electronic stimulator machines. Is there is any significant benefit in using them to increase strength or to tone up?

I have read that bruce lee has used them(the movie dragon) and russian olympic lifters used them for an edge.

I had alot of e-stem on my back when I used to get back spasms really bad. Other than that, sometimes e-stem is used for people who otherwise couldnt workout to exercise their muscles.

or used for rehab purposes. But I don't think any "home models" of such things are going to do the trick; most of us don't have knowledge of proper usage for these devices, either.

I got one from my Physio for rehab purposes, great tool, not much cop for building muscle but will help with that extreme toned look.

They help keep the blood flowing to injured area's, which means that you can heal faster. As far as building muscle, I haven't heard many good things about them.

An article by Charlie Francis, Ben Johnson's coach:

http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/159ems.html

They can be good if you have a stiff back or neck but totally useless for getting big/strong...

I've been using one for back spasms and a neck injury for awhile now. I haven't noticed any increase in strength nor have they done anything to help me "tone up". They are great for rehabilitative purposes but not for strength and conditioning purposes.

Using one right now rehabing my LcL. Also along with seeing a PT 3x a week, gym rehab,ice massage, 45min cardio 5x a week. Swimming 3 days,stretch class, and power lifting day. Got a ticket to the Pan Am's and am in overdrive trying to pull this one off.

I'll do my best to dispell a few myths, inaccuracies and misundrstandings. Hopefully one of the other Mod's can then archive this thread since this question gets asked somewhat regularly. First I'll clear up some of what's been talked about already, then I'll go into some of the details.

"I had alot of e-stem on my back when I used to get back spasms really bad. Other than that, sometimes e-stem is used for people who otherwise couldnt workout to exercise their muscles." The e-stim used to control muscle spasms is very different than what is used for people with neural problems.

"I got one from my Physio for rehab purposes, great tool, not much cop for building muscle but will help with that extreme toned look." Rehab purposes is pretty vague. There are various uses for e-stim machines in therapy and are not all based on the same princicples. E-stim will do NOTHING to help with a "toned" look. Looking ripped comes from having low levels of bodyfat, and since the muscular contractions induced by a machine require no use from the bodies various energy systems there is no "toning" effect.

"They help keep the blood flowing to injured area's, which means that you can heal faster. As far as building muscle, I haven't heard many good things about them." Again, there are different types of e-stim. Some is used for muscular contractions, some is used to increase circulation, some is used to drive out inflammation and yet other is uses to slow circulation in an area.


"An article by Charlie Francis, Ben Johnson's coach:
http://www.t-mag.com/nation_articles/159ems.html" Pretty good article, but hardly the defining literature on the topic.

"Using one right now rehabing my LcL. Also along with seeing a PT 3x a week, gym rehab,ice massage, 45min cardio 5x a week. Swimming 3 days,stretch class, and power lifting day. Got a ticket to the Pan Am's and am in overdrive trying to pull this one off." I doubt you're using an EMS for ligament repair. Since ligaments have no contractile ability it would make no sense to use a unit for thet type of treatment. I'd venture to guess that you're using a unit that either aids healing or decreases inflammation.

Cont...

NMES or Neural Muscular Electronic Stimulators are used in physical therapy. What they do is send an electric current through the motor neurons of a muscle in order to produce a contraction. This can be done for several reasons. One: It can help to stimulate neural pathways. Not the machine itself, but the person being able to feel a muscular contraction that would otherwise not be present and then the person putting in their own work by trying to aid the contraction through voluntary contraction. Two: It can help slow the atrophy process in a muscle that is not being used for various reasons (disease process, casted limb, neural injury etc.) It's important to note that an NEMS can just SLOW atrophy, it is NOT a way to reverse it.

Other forms of electronic machines use different settings to accomplish different goals. Some are to decrease blood flow to an area, as in an acute injury or immediately following surgery. Others are to increase blood flow to an area to aid in speeding the healing process. For this thread though we'll focus on just the NMES.

An NMES produces what could be considered an "artificial" contraction. Yes, the muscle contracts and can be taken through a range of motion, but just contracting a muscle is not what produces growth or improved neural efficiency for athletic purposes.

When we lift weights to add size the muscles are producing force to move a joint through it's range of motion AGAINST RESISTANCE. That's the important part...AGAINST RESISTANCE. When using an NEMS there is no resistance so the muscle isn't having to produce force through it's range of motion. Yes, there is an isometric contraction at the end range of motion, but we know that isometrics are far from an optimal way to develop strength.

Next, there is no neural input to make a contraction occur when using an NMES. Also, as pointed out in the article linked by jbraswell, the way nerves are recruited by an NMES unit is the opposite order of how they are recruited naturally (due to nerve diameter and resistance). As has been discussed frequently on this board specificity of training can be a vital part of athletic training. With the NEMS there is actually the opposite of specificity of training (in a manner of speaking that is.)

Cont...

...cont...

When an athlete trains their muscles they are not just training the musculoskeletal system. Many of the bodies systems come into play and (hopefully) progress with the musculoskeletal system. When you use the NEMS unit there is no energy used from within the body as there is with normal muscular use. So, if you were to try to rely on NEMS for training you would not be utilizing any calories. That shoots down the theory of getting ripped ab's by using NEMS. Also, the lactic acid clearing that is a normal part of training is not utilized with NEMS, so that system is not stressed (trained) to be more efficient.

Best in Health and Training, J. R.

Dude I where one on my knee and im shredded like paper lol! j/k The PT uses an Ultrasound, my chiro uses massage and estim.

I work with a medical equipment company and we made a few thousand (they are easy to make) of the EMS devices just to help in patient recovery. However; during the trials, we determined that the cost of marketing them and getting FDA approval (very difficult) was not worth the return in profits.

Some of the good things we have had approved was bone growth cement and also special plates and screws that are absorbed by the bones after the fracture has healed (important in young kids with growing bones to prevent multiple surgeries).

Just to add to what JR said, muscle contraction starts in the brain, goes down the spinal cord, through the peripheral nerves, and eventually makes the muscle contract. Many of the reasons you get stronger with exercise involve adaptations of the nerves. This is why a newbie has big improvements in the first few weeks of starting weights, not muscle but nerve adaptations. The problem with EMS machines is they skip the nervous stimulation adaptations and go straight to stimulating the muscle.

So you might be thinking "Well that's okay, as long as the muscle gets stronger." But if you haven't made the neural adaptations then the brain has not trained to activate that muscle so you can't use it in voluntary contractions.

Some really good information. Thanks for the insight.

JRS is correct. Good for rehab. For anything else ... hmmm.

Cheers,

Will

What was that electronic ab device called? Abtronic or something?? Anyway , I read an article in the paper awhile ago where the govt actually made the company give all consumers who bought it their money back because the thing was junk and that the electronic device would not firm up the abs.