jonwell is correct.
The only situations where using your empty hands vs. a knife is would be an option off the top off my head are:
1) You're with a loved one (child, significant other) who you can't afford to leave behind if you start running.
2) You're somehow cornered and can't run.
Fighting competently with a belt takes a lot of training and thinking that you can unbuckle your belt and start using it while the knifer waits for you to do what you have to falls into the lines of what TKDFighter mentioned as a "before you knife fight, take off your jacket and wrap it around your forearm line of thinking. " If you have a lightning fast way of deploying your belt and know how to use it, then it might be a good idea.
Equalizers are definitely a good idea, throw stuff at the attacker, scream, whatever. Have a minimaglite to enforce your hammerfist strikes. Pulling the light out might be another thing though.
I don't think "expect to get cut" is accurate. "Expect to get killed" would be more truthful.
Here is a bit by Bill McGrath from the Eskrima Digest that might be good food for thought:
"In a previous post I mentioned how I would start a knife vs. hand
seminar with a quick lesson to a female white belt on knife then let a
male black belt try to disarm her. The quickie knife lesson I gave
consisted of the knife in icepick grip edge in. I gave the white belts
just a forehand and backhand diagonal stab/rip, a simple counter to a
wristgrab (grab the knuckles of your knife hand, put the blade on the
back of his and "row" backwards with your lats) and an eyejab with the
knife. To these techniques I added a minute of drill where
they would write their name in the air with the knife just to add some
randomness to their movements. That was enough so that none of the
male blackbelts in the these schools could disarm them. Now granted,
the whitebelts were not fighting a blackbelt trying to knock them out
no matter if he got cut in the process, but considering the white
belts had a lesson that lasted all of 5 minutes, a guy who thought he
was going to have an easy time disarming
them would be in for a nasty surprise.
Maybe a little knowledge really is a dangerous thing."
ironmongoose,thanks bro, i came across that in the past and forgot to bookmark it. wanted to include it in my above post of links as a counterpoint, a yang to the yin, if you will.http://righteouswarriortemple.org/New%20Folder/hrdce.htme. kaye,"Never swing. Never use the buckle. No figure eights."never use absolutes ;-) membrane,"Fighting competently with a belt takes a lot of training and thinking that you can unbuckle your belt and start using it while the knifer waits for you to do what you have to falls into the lines of what TKDFighter mentioned as a "before you knife fight, take off your jacket and wrap it around your forearm line of thinking. " If you have a lightning fast way of deploying your belt and know how to use it, then it might be a good idea. "and "Equalizers are definitely a good idea, throw stuff at the attacker, "what if we combine the above 2 thoughts and throw something at the attacker so that you have time to deploy your belt (or mini-maglite)? i keep some extra pens in my jacket, some pennies, etc. if my awareness has let me down and my avoidance skills doesn't help, and the tactical decision is made to fight back or to run, i will throw stuff as a distractor as a precursor to running or getting say, my mini-maglite or belt (for argument's sake, i haven't trained the belt or flexible weapons yet). of course all situations will be different and there is no cut and dried response that will work in all situations. ----------------here's one more link from the Tactical Library site which mirrors the Army's site on the Field Manual on combatives (the old one not the new one).http://www.sinsideout.com/sickcity/arcana/combat/FM_21-150/CH5.PDFcheck out the section on using a 3 foot rope.
I have been a fan of blade combat since I was a kid .Grew up fencing and studing every thing about blade combat which led me to the Filipino martial arts and then to the great knife fighters of the country.First about empty hand vs the blade,let me say I believe a lot that is taught is old stuff which date back to WWII it isn't bad it still better than nothing.I think that the newer stuff taught by pioneers like Bluer,Hock,etc is beter stuff to spend your time on.Me myself I perfer not to be in a situation of facing a blade empty handed but if I could not get away you got to know somehing about empty hand tech ,old ,new anything
Again, people, read the other thread, "Knife Defense Tape" in order to avoid posting stupid things.
e.kaye, what was the source of the belt training you received? It's something I'd like to look into more.
" what if we combine the above 2 thoughts and throw something at the attacker so that you have time to deploy your belt (or mini-maglite)? i keep some extra pens in my jacket, some pennies, etc. if my awareness has let me down and my avoidance skills doesn't help, and the tactical decision is made to fight back or to run, i will throw stuff as a distractor as a precursor to running or getting say, my mini-maglite or belt (for argument's sake, i haven't trained the belt or flexible weapons yet). of course all situations will be different and there is no cut and dried response that will work in all situations. "
That might be a good idea, distracting the opponent long enough to even the odds (preferably run away). If you carry an equalizer you better practice deployment drill or you're just fooling yourself.
I do see a problem with this, though.
If someone is intending to stab you (not just brandish a knife and take your wallet and cell phone), he will not want to you be aware that he has a knife. The knife might be hidden behind the back or thigh and the attacker will try to surprise you. (I've seen this happen.)
That pretty much reduces knife defenses to oh-shit-reactions. Getting out a belt to tie the attackers arm will be impossible if he is charging at you, trying to sink the knife in your belly.
In my opinion the most important thing is awareness of your surroundings. If you can't see where a person's hand is, it means trouble.
That pretty much reduces knife defenses to oh-shit-reactions - Sadly, those of us that examine fights in real world enviroments already realize this is pretty much the rule when it comes to ANY fight, not just ones with edged weapons.
membrane-You are correct. By definition a surprise attack is a surprise. Awareness does not rule them out. I think the discussion was geared toward situations where you know that the opponent is armed and potentially coming after you.
Ironmongoose-The sole source for this training is in NYC. In the future I will have more information. As of now, it is not available on video or in print. The training might be available in seminars, but we haven't decided yet.
e. kaye,
ever mysterious ;-) and good point on surprise.
membrane & TKDFighter,
good points. a friend more experienced than me has advised me to practice deployment drills.
and yes, always monitor the hands. you always hear LEO's say/yell/bark "put your hands where i can see them". marc animal macyoung in one of his books has a great diagram/pictures of what people look like when they are hiding their hands/arms.
I was reviewing some material last night when I stumbled across this quote by Hock..... "Not everyone you face is Bruce Lee with a knife." An excellent statement in my opinion.
Stick - Yes.....deployment drills are a needed attribute builder. Just like drawing a pistol and bringin it into play, it all seems pretty easy until you try doing it under pressure. For me, a knife is usualy there as a 2nd or 3rd option with firearms or OC being my primary options.
TKDFighter,
my friend gave me a comtech stinger. he knows i carry some pens and mini-maglite and he himself is a knifer and carries. he has advised me to practice my deployment considering i keep them in my jacket pocket. i sometimes keep a pen in my back pants pocket but it's hard with the cold weather now in NYC with the big down jackets and all.
after some time practicing at home under no stress, i've concluded i'm better off being vigilant and alert and avoiding trouble :-)
A note about "passing the blade" or knife "tapping" techniques. The pekiti-tersia, LeCosta, and other kali drills I have practiced are not meant to be repeated over and over when used against the knife. A training sequence may have the the trainee deflecting and passing the knife repeatedly, but that is only meant to give repetition of motion. In actual use you may hopefully pass the knife once so that it misses your vitals and gives you time to 1) achieve advantage through body position, 2) bring your weapons to bear, 3) take out the attacker, his limbs or the weapon.
Take care to diferentiate between training and application. If you ask an instructor he should be able to tell you the difference. If a friend or buddy shares his training with you outside of class, you may be missing the most important and applicable parts.
Ray White
www.absolutejkd.com