Escaping the "Mount" in Judo?

How do you guys prefer to escape the "mount" (Tate Shiho Gatame and it's many variations) when competing/training in Judo?

For me, when I am doing Judo, I find that when I have to deal with the specter of losing via pin, the old "elbow-knee" escape that is common in BJJ, takes too long to work and find turtling quickly to be a better way of escaping the pin FOR JUDO COMPETITION (I am not saying that is how one should respond in BJJ, MMA, or on the street).

What about you guys? Do you prefer to turtle when mounted or are you able to make the "elbow-knee" escape or some other one work before being scored on by an opponent's pin?

For me, the easiest is trapping one of their arms, and bridge and roll. But, this only works for me if I hit it before they are settled in. If they settle in, I am turtling like a mofo.

upa & knee/elbow escape.

I use "upa" about 80% of the time. if he bases out during this, it just makes it easier to setup the frame for the elbow/knee.

Bull_in_chinashop,

What if, for some reason, you weren't able to successfully escape at first and your opponent settles in, then what? Do you still keep on using the combo of the "upa" and "elbow-knee" escape, or do you turtle?

define "settles- in"

he grapevines the legs. - you snap yours out straight to break the hooks and then slide them up tight to your butt so he can't re hook.

he rides up into your armpits. - you push off w/ forearms and slide forard to bring him back down to your hips.

get to half guard, upa, knee/elbow keep fighting and working to create something..

and sometimes you're just stuck! I roll with some bad ass guys @ Lloyd's. Sometimes I'm just fucked!

I don't ever turtle on purpose. The only times I've been caught turlted were always after a takedown or throw attempt where he was behind me. and my next action is to immediately get turned around. sometimes I haven't been able.. ;-) that's what practice is for.

that said. in a tournament. I'd turtle. I'm not a martyr, but that's playing to the rules and you don't exactly need to practice that at the club, when you can be practicing escapes.

I find these references to turtling to escape tate shiho interesting.

If your are really pinned, then turtling isn't going to work unless you do something else first to make some space. Bridge and roll, leg trap, Upa, knee-elbow, whatever you want to do.

If the guys is not quite settled, turtling is easier, but even in a Judo contest I wouldn't do it unless absolutely totally desperate.

For me, the thing in Tate Shiho is that you will have one arm free. I usually use that arm to push his knee down and get my leg around it somehow. I may have to do some other stuff to set that up...diversionary tactics in a lot of cases.

Ben R.

Ben, in less words you're using you're using a knee elbow frame to get to the half guard.

"Ben, in less words you're using you're using a knee elbow frame to get to the half guard. "

LOL, BJJ sure has Judo beat on compact terminology!

I don't like the ashi garami thing because it lessens mobility on my part when I'm on top. Guys think they are so cool when they do it, too.

I love Tate Shiho Gatame. It's my favorite pin.

Ben R.

i always try to trap an arm and bridge and roll

i think turning your back while mounted is not a good idea

im also in a lightweight category and feel pretty strong in my division so i can normally pull off this escape against people my weight class

i always try to trap an arm and bridge and roll

it's key that you also trap the same side leg by picking up your foot and moving it outside his ankle and dragging it back in tight, otherwise whan you roll, he'll just base out that leg and shut it down.

thanks bull!!!!!

i completely forgot to say that..

i also like combo escapes.. mainly try to bridge one way then right into the other direction

or combine a knee/elbow escape into a bridge roll.

NEVER GIVE UP EVER EVER EVER!!!!!!!

exactly. just like throws, good guys aren't going to be overturned by the first, outright attack. You've got to feint and move and setup and fake and create movement.. it is no different.

in judo rules my most high % move is the foot lift/foot drag combo...it at least gets you to 1/2 gaurd and stops the clock.

I like the foot lift/foot drag combo as well, then you can still finish out to full guard by elbow/knee escape the last little step if half guard isn't your thing(it works a little too slow for judo competitions in my opinion).

I was just gonna say foot drag, all you're looking for is to take away the pin and stall till they stand, I dislike Judo ground rules but unless you're very confident with your escapes then there's no point fighting to escape back to guard then having it stood up shortly after anyway.

i'm not looking to stall...i'm looking to take their back, sweep or submit 'em!!!...lol