"It is about action and these guys restart before the action in ne-waza has stopped."
I think the key word is not 'action', the key word is 'progress.'
I hardly ever do newaza in judo tournaments because the time when both myself and the other guy want to do matwork is very rare. I'll turtle and rest, the guy will tie me up in his closed guard, disengage my guard, etc.
i see it as a simple matter of respect. the bjj fellas would be pissed if i went to a bjj tournament, knew nothing about their sport and just stood there the entire time throwing people and then standing back up rather than attempting any real groundwork.
i have too much respect for them to go and do that and id expect that you'd have the same for me.
seriously now. if you want to enter a judo tournament go to a judo club and just learn enough so that you dont get hurt or hurt somebody else. that isnt much to ask, not by a long shot. judo, compared to bjj, is not expensive. you can learn a lot from it. dont be so arrogant to take the actions you are thinking of. its wrong and possibly dangerous on so many levels.
-resnick
PS---
suplex. you sound like an ass. so what if you won a friggin white belt division in judo. big whippie. wrestlers do well in judo naturally, i can just as easily say that when i began wrestling i fucked everybody in the entire state of WI up with nothing but my judo. all the way to the state tournament as a freshman, only losing when i accidently forgot where i was and slammed some bastard too hard and got DQ'd. i'd dare to say my accomplishment with judo in wrestling makes your little event nothing worth a pot to piss in. and, please, i didnt know how to tie a belt until i was a green belt.
Over the last year there has been a steady increase in the amount of time being given on the ground at local level events. They seem to definitely be more concerned with progress than with time now. A few refs have told me that it takes about that long for things to filter down to the local level.
Steve Lafrate
Steve: Even then it takes a while. The trend back to more ne-waza actually started a few years ago. Even though refs were reinforced not to call matte unless there was a lack of progress, there was still little ne-waza because it seemed like competitors were conditioned to not bother with ne-waza because of the lack of time, and would not engage on the ground.
***********
Freefaller: As already mentioned, learn the rules first; if not, it just pisses everyone off.
Secondly learn to condition yourself to turn out from throws/takedowns. It takes a bit of experience for even judo players to do this but BJJ players instinctively go to their backs. What could have been a Koka or even nothing, becomes an Ippon. You can lose the match in seconds and wonder why.
--resnick,
Competing in Judo, makes me an ass? LOL. Very sorry for disrespecting you and "your" sport, by entering a judo tournament. Also, I apologize for voicing my opinion about entering a judo tournament.
Josh, the guy was not ragging on Judo, or whatever set you off. I understand that in Judo we don't usually talk much about who we beat or how, it's different in wrestling I guess.
A green belt from Louisiana who was a great wrestler placed 2nd or 3rd in his division at collegiate nationals in Indiana. It's just a fact he was a great athlete in great shape, who had been competing at wrestling since he was able to walk. The guy walked through several brown and black belts. Maybe suplexman is the same type.
I agree with your assesment of the 7 month BJJ guy entering a Judo tournament with no Judo training. He should get some Judo experience first.
Ben R.
Suplexman,
I think that Josh is suggesting that a bit more humility is in order, considering the size of some of the fish in this particular pool. "Whooping ass" in the goldfish bowl of a local tournament doesn't impress the great whites that swim here. Being arrogant about it pisses one in particular off.
By my second post Josh was offering to help me work on my breakfalls. I STILL wear a cup to practice.
Hope the shoulder is doing well Josh. I'd love to point you out to my kids watching you in Athens. "Look kids! He was gonna beat dad's ass!" :)
Steve Lafrate
LOL@"I STILL wear a cup to practice."
I remember that to this day. I think you and I started Judo about the same time and our first tourney was on the same day. I was thinking to myself "Crap, who is this Resnick dude? I'm not making another post until I been doing Judo for a long time."
Pete Pelter
Thomas, good point, I should have been more exact in my wording and said "progress"..
"But, for the most part I whooped ass, first match, ipponed the guy in like 12 seconds."
lmao.
HUMILITY is a huge part of judo. if you cannot show that then you shouldnt be commenting about it no matter what suplex. when you come in here and say things like that you immedialty show a complete lack of respect for judo and those people who you competed with. You even give somebody else the idea that "if he could do it so could i" without any consideration whatsoever as to what could happen if things went even the slightest bit amiss.
if you cannot understand how it was that your words irked me then you should consider what it was you said and see how they are not in-line with the goals and ideas of the sport.
there are some rather big fish around these part, of which im hardly even one (if one at all), none of them would ever sit there saying how they blew through the competition or "whooped ass".. i suggest you learn to follow their lead.
-resnick
Space,
do you think that cup really helps you? just curious.. i mean, a Jstrap is just not at all a comfortable thing and if the cup gets hit and slides thats gotta hurt just as much as getting nailed anyways. how often do you think its saved you from some real pain?
in judo there is no striking and going for the nuts is not something anybody ever has as a goal. ive been around for some time and ive received some really serious nut shots in judo-- a few bad enough to make me pee blood and go to the ER.. but, i swear im the only guy ive heard of that has been nailed that bad more than once.
if you feel it helps you or saves you from serious injury i guess its okay, but im glad that im not the fella who is training with ya week after week. =)
oh yea.. do you know there are soft-cups out there now..? made for judo in specific. that would be a very good alternative.
-resnick
While I was still practicing/competing in Judo (finished about '99) we started to get a few BJJ guys joining in.
Largely the impression back then was the same as today: basically their ground games were very technical and their standing games were not strategically suited to the Judo competition rules. While coaching players fighting such players it was (typically) easy to rack up penalties and win by playing a 'smart' game.
On the other side of the coin I lost a final in Rio a few years back to a BJJ guy who choked me out as I tried for a matte from the ground: after completely dominating the standing game I underestimated his ground game and paid the price.
Now that I am doing BJJ myself, a number of my Team mates have expressed an interest in Judo and are starting to learn the skillz + rules... while they do well in BJJ competitions I think they appreciate that while BJJ and Judo are similar, tactically and strategically they are worlds appart. I often use a "Tennis to Squash" example to illustrate my point.
"in judo there is no striking and going for the nuts is not something anybody ever has as a goal"
unless you are fighting Royce Gracie
The guys I've playe in shiai were not top level BJJ'ists. I basically controlled the grip and threw them, and attacked on the ground from top position. Some of them have pretty good double/single leg attacks, and have almost caught me with them. The key is to not just stand in fron on them without gripping, that is how I almost got caught.
FAMLIMAN watched me at nationals in Cleaveland, I think. Wasn't that orange belt a BJJ guy? Or was he doing both Judo and BJJ? I can't remember his name.
Ben R.
I have some Judo experience and have trained with Dave Camarillo for 2.5 years in BJJ. So I have more air time than Delta, and less throws than a T-ball pitcher, and both arms are killing me...
Resnick: I would piss my pants laughing if you came to a Tourny and just started slamming people and stood back up. That would teach alot of the BJJ/Judo doubters that they may need to add something to their game. Jose B dropped some dudes on their heads when he went to his 1st BJJ Tourny.
I would like to see more time spent on the ground like Q says, it seems like they just stop the action as soon as it hits the ground. I think the coolest would be timed standup and timed ground work, not that simple of course. Mike
BIC, you might try working on your transitions from standing to ground. You will have to do some specific training on that, though, until the transitions become second nature.
A problem I see with a lot of Judo teaching is that nobody practices transitions, or they train them very little. Lot's of set pieces of turtle attacks, but a guy skilled on bottom can hold out and make you burn a lot of energy trying to "make something happen" as you put it.
Ben R.
Malloy,
I talked to jose about his experiences in BJJ. He said that it was a lot of fun for him to compete in, but he really didnt know the rules half as well as he wished he had. he said throwing wasnt too much of a problem, but that as soon as people knew what he was doing they'd just "grip-n-sit" to neutralize him.
maybe someday. not right now, thats for sure. but, maybe someday, just for fun.
-resnick
Freefaller21:
I think it is great you are going to compete in a Judo tournament.
Make sure you know how to fall. Make sure you understand the rules of the tournament.
I would train Judo with Judo players for a little while before competing. You might want to pick up a book on Judo and read it.
Juso is a wonderful sport and a great complement to BJJ.
Good Luck!
I'll stick with my statement that it is a terrible idea. At 7 months in, you would be very confused in a bjj tournament, let along a bjj tournament.
Freefaller is my teammate and both of us just want to join tournaments for fun and experience. We mean no disrespect. We have both competed in BJJ tourneys, but we rarely have BJJ/sub wrestling tourneys up where we live so we are just looking for alternatives.