Examples of top five guys subbed from guard

spliffmood - Fedor/ Coleman
Mousasi/ Kang


Worth mentioning, but I don't think either guy was quite top 5.

 possibly overeem by werdum

misterw - 
JimmersonzGlove -  Aoki/Alvarez?


Alvarez wasn't top five though.

 

He was ranked #2 or #3 going into the Aoki fight. In most peoples eyes he was ranked #2.

bj/gomi

Scratch that

Coleman/Nogueira (Coleman was top 5 at this time)

Lutter/Silva (was Lutter top 5? hard do say, but at least he got a title shot.)

Torres/Beebe was transitional like Nog/Silvia.

IIRC, Torres didn't even finish the choke from guard.

removed because html got all messed up and i couldnt fix it properly

whistleblower - 
misterw - What recent examples can you think of where a top 5 ranked fighter has been submitted from his opponents guard (ie subbed while he had the top position)?

I was having a hard time thinking of any. The only one that came to mind was Silva subbing Lutter with the triangle, but I doubt Lutter was considered top five, despite having a title shot.

Lutter wasn't even top-10 at the time - and never has been in his MMA career.
misterw -
JimmersonzGlove - Aoki/Alvarez?

Alvarez wasn't top five though.

Yes, he was. Easily. Alvarez was actually consensus ranked top-3 at that point (and mostly ranked #2, behind only BJ), and was even ranked ahead of Aoki going into that fight.


well, i will take your word for it. I am surprised that anyone would have him ranked as high as #2. What was that based on -- his tournament victories over kawajiri and hansen? I dont think he had beaten anyone of note before that. I would have expected that BJ, Aoki, JZ, Sherk, Gomi (maybe even melendez and some other top UFC contenders) would have been ranked ahead of him. Interesting.

Eddie Huerta - Not very recent but Coutoure was subbed by Enson Inoue in a regular armbar from guard in Japan.


But were either one top 5 at that point? Wasn't that before couture fought in the ufc?

I'm also not sure if aoki/alvarez should count because alvarez wasn't in aoki's guard, although aoki was on the bottom. Alvarez had aoki mounted, and then aoki escaped mount directly into a leglock position.

So that leaves us with:

mir/sylvia (not exactly recent)
nogueira/coleman (ages ago_
Gomi/diaz
aoki/hansen

I think this really shows the importance of takedowns, as clearly the bottom position is a very difficult place to submit quality opponents from.

ranier wolfcastle -  possibly overeem by werdum



 Overeem was definitely not top 5. His only HW win at all was the fluke injury over Kharitonov, which was basically the same as Coleman's over Shogun except Sergei didn't scream and tap immediately.

misterw - I think this really shows the importance of takedowns, as clearly the bottom position is a very difficult place to submit quality opponents from.


Not necessarily. What about times that someone loses the takedown, sweeps/reverses for top, then finishes?

By that logic, Aoki's leglock definitely counts--under mount, still finishes.

Fedor/Randleman is relevant too: loses the takedown, finishes the submission.

twinkletoesCT - 
misterw - I think this really shows the importance of takedowns, as clearly the bottom position is a very difficult place to submit quality opponents from.


Not necessarily. What about times that someone loses the takedown, sweeps/reverses for top, then finishes?

By that logic, Aoki's leglock definitely counts--under mount, still finishes.

Fedor/Randleman is relevant too: loses the takedown, finishes the submission.


I wasn't saying takedowns are the ONLY way to get top position. I was just saying that, given the importance of having top position, takedowns are a great tool to have at your disposal. When BJ Penn has top position, he's damn near unstoppable. If he could have taken GSP down, maybe he would have won, since he was unable to sweep him.

I wasn't counting Aoki's leglock because it seemed to me like a submission resulting from a scramble, not from a strategically chosen bottom position. I dont think he would have chosen to be there, and "pulling bottom mount" doesn't seem like something one should try to emulate. And did alvarez really every secure the mount?

Whether you count that as fitting the criteria or not, when I started thinking about it, I was just surprised by how few submissions from the bottom there are these days.

JimmersonzGlove - Mir wasn't top 5 in the Sylvia fight, was he?

Really? I just assumed he was since he was fighting for the title. Are you saying they were all in Pride?

Diaz had Gomi in guard technically (though Gomi was already done prior)

Aoki got Alavarez from a side to mount transition and it was a leg lock.

Aoki got Hansen from guard with a gogo and iirc Hansen was top 5 at the time because i remember saying that was the first gogo on a top 5 opponent.

Nog got CC from top mount transition (Nog was on top).

Nog armbarring Coleman from guard def counts.

Nog guillotined Tim from top position transition.

Same with Enson arbarring Randy from guard (he did the same to Royce Alger in the UFC before though Royce was not tops).

Mir on Tim

And of course top position is important in MMA but then again theres a ton of guys who cant pass guard for shit so....

And the BJ/GSP example, what if....

Thats just the thing, taking GSP down is a task in itself, same with holding him there. Just like doing both on BJ is very hard for most people.

Just like they said of Nog and Fedor. Well....

What about when Jeremy Horn arm triangled Chuck Liddell from half guard?