irishrottie - id be really interested to see how Fedor, Cro Cop and Nog from 2003-2005 era would do against todays heavyweights.
Seeing a guy like JDS be able to use Boxing and takedown defense in this era of supposed 265 athletic heavys that are all so well rounded makes me think they would all be capable of fighting for the title.
Those 3 guys were ahead of their time. Dont think you could take anyone from that era of 03-05 put them in their division now and argue they could win a title.
I see nothing from J2S, Cain and Mir/Overeem/Werdum to suggest that the HW division has progressed from Fedor's era. Junior is like Cro Cop without the striking background, kicks and cardio, and he's far and away the top HW.
Im positive that Fedor and Nog in top form would be just as successful against today's HWs as they were in their own prime. <br type="_moz" />
a lot of truth here, but also prime Fedor still struggles against a top notch wrestler with Sub defense (i think he could beat any of them for sure, but if he has to fight say Cormier, Cain, Brock in a span of 4 or 5 fights, he probably loses one of them. No shame there, but not the huge undefeated run he was able to enjoy. and I'm not sure how prime Nog would beat JDS;can he get it to the ground? outbox him?
Neil McCauley - national champion wrestlers : randleman, coleman, fujita
k1 champions : semmy schilt, mark hunt
adcc champions : arona, monson
olympic judo medalists : ishii, ogawa
You left out;
Circus Freaks : Zulu, Hong Man Choi
Except Choi is a legit Kickboxer. and zulu was apparently 38-0 in vale tudo.
AND they were freakshow fights on the japanese new years eve show. The japanese promotions love fights like that, they pay well for them too i'd bet, you think JDS wopuld turn down a fight with ZULU for big money out of pride?
Neil McCauley - national champion wrestlers : randleman, coleman, fujita
k1 champions : semmy schilt, mark hunt
adcc champions : arona, monson
olympic judo medalists : ishii, ogawa
You left out;
Circus Freaks : Zulu, Hong Man Choi
Except Choi is a legit Kickboxer. and zulu was apparently 38-0 in vale tudo.
AND they were freakshow fights on the japanese new years eve show. The japanese promotions love fights like that, they pay well for them too i'd bet, you think JDS wopuld turn down a fight with ZULU for big money out of pride?
Zulu was supoosedly well over 100-0 about 26 years ago when he fought Rickson on national TV in Brazil with the president there. He suffered his first defeat (BTW at that time I think he was a 35 year old carved giant) Vs 22 year old Rickson after calling out the Gracies.
For once they sent their best to fight (gracies). In UFC 1 they felt there was not even any such need to send their best, so they sent Royce to win the first UFC's instead. An unreal staement of superiority.
orcus - It's true he beat lots of guys who were very good at one dimension. You might even say he beat lots of one-dimensional guys.
A one dimensional guy is the heavy weight champ.
???
Apparently being a Brown Belt under the Nog bros and having AMAZING defensive wrestling = one dimentional...
Can't have it both ways imo.
Cro cop also has/had great defensive wrestling/tdd and an underrated ground game. So he was listed as a striker, and called one dimensional, but JDS isn't? Both of them GREATLY love their stand up and most of the time only use their striking. What is the difference?
Edit: I just noticed the OP was not the one to bring up cro cop. My question still stands though.
I don't consider Cro Cop one dimentional either...
I consider them both specialists, but well rounded. They are both (or were) great at using their grappling skills to focus on the striking. Much like Chuck as well.
orcus - It's true he beat lots of guys who were very good at one dimension. You might even say he beat lots of one-dimensional guys.
A one dimensional guy is the heavy weight champ.
???
Apparently being a Brown Belt under the Nog bros and having AMAZING defensive wrestling = one dimentional...
Can't have it both ways imo.
Cro cop also has/had great defensive wrestling/tdd and an underrated ground game. So he was listed as a striker, and called one dimensional, but JDS isn't? Both of them GREATLY love their stand up and most of the time only use their striking. What is the difference?
Edit: I just noticed the OP was not the one to bring up cro cop. My question still stands though.
I don't consider Cro Cop one dimentional either...
I consider them both specialists, but well rounded. They are both (or were) great at using their grappling skills to focus on the striking. Much like Chuck as well.
Orcus, Fedors stalker said all his wins were over one dimensional fighters. I just pointed out that JDS must be one dimensional by his standards so.
UGCTT_LnPninja - I don't consider Cro Cop one dimentional either...
I consider them both specialists, but well rounded. They are both (or were) great at using their grappling skills to focus on the striking. Much like Chuck as well.
Orcus, Fedors stalker said all his wins were over one dimensional fighters. I just pointed out that JDS must be one dimensional by his standards so.
If you read Orcus' post, that is not what he said....
He chose his words very carefully. ;-)
He said Fedor beat guys "who were very good at one dimension"...and then said that "you might even say that he beat a lot of one dimensional guys"....
<blockquote>UGCTT_LnPninja - <blockquote>Shaq Attack - <blockquote>UGCTT_LnPninja - Good thread and good points NM.<br /><br />Fedor did fight a wide variety of specialists. <br /><br />No one will ever do what he did over 10 years.</blockquote><br /><br />its gonna be really hard for anyone to duck all decent competition for 10 years..<br /><br />renan barao is owning no names like fedor did easily. 28 fight win streak yo.<br /><br />He's right U know! 7-0 Vs UFC champs don't mean crap! No wait....<br /><br />only difference is, he didnt get FINISHED 3 straight times as soon as he started fighting decent competition</blockquote><br /> Is your self esteem really that low today?</blockquote><br />
He's right U know! 7-0 Vs UFC champs ain't crap!! No wait...
Lazer MMA - <blockquote>UGCTT_LnPninja - <blockquote>Shaq Attack - <blockquote>UGCTT_LnPninja - Good thread and good points NM.<br /><br />Fedor did fight a wide variety of specialists. <br /><br />No one will ever do what he did over 10 years.</blockquote><br /><br />its gonna be really hard for anyone to duck all decent competition for 10 years..<br /><br />renan barao is owning no names like fedor did easily. 28 fight win streak yo.<br /><br />He's right U know! 7-0 Vs UFC champs don't mean crap! No wait....<br /><br />only difference is, he didnt get FINISHED 3 straight times as soon as he started fighting decent competition</blockquote><br /> Is your self esteem really that low today?</blockquote><br />
He's right U know! 7-0 Vs UFC champs ain't crap!! No wait...
Fedor has had 1 shot at taking on a UFC champ and he decided to go to Strike Force instead.
With that said, i like how Fedor stacks up against most heavies in the past 20 years. The exceptions would be guys like Brock, Cain, JDS and Overeem. I take prime Fedor over everyone else with the possible exception of Arlovski, Cormier and Barnett.
Brock and Cain take him down and work him over on the ground. those guys have good submission defense and are very powerful wrestlers, one with an endless gas tank, the other with grinding, devestating power. JDS has too good of take down defense for Fedor to get him down and he beats the Russian up on the feet badly. Overeem is just too big, too physical and too technical with his knees, kicks, elbows and punches. These are all very bad match ups for Fedor
Cormier appears to be the goods but we still need to see more from him before i pencil him in as a favorite over Fedor. Barnett is anther all time great but he may just be a step behind Fedor. Either way, it would be a tough fight for both guys with each having ways to win. And finally Arlovski. We got to see a glimpse of what that fight could have been until Andrei went for the ill advised flying knee with his hands down. Kudos to Fedor for turning the tables around and winning a fight that he was being made to look bad in. That fight goes to each guy 5/10 times.
I favor Fedor over every other heavy out there that we've seen since the 1990s. He was a great fighter. He could win from multiple positions and his heart was unquestionable. Don't allow the beatings he's taken lately to erase or clowd what this man was capable of. He had virtually a perfect size for the weight class, speed, endurance, power, technique on the feet and on the ground, intelligence, and a very strong will.
UGCTT_LnPninja - ^^^^ I cannot possibly see Brock beating a PRIME Fedor. Fedor can take punishment, and Brock is terrible at everything except wrestling.
Fedor either clips him and makes him do the Brock-Dance on the feet, or submits him on the ground.
Brock is pretty good at submission defense and top positioning. Take the Mir fight for example, he was able to hold him down, completely shut his game down, (arguably the best ground game of all time) and systematically beat him down. What Big Foot did to Fedor is similar to what Brock could do to Fedor. Of course Fedor has a shot at landing his hay makers on Brock but other than Rogers, what other fighter has Fedor stopped from standing? And how many fighters, (inlcuding Mark Hunt) have put Fedor on his back and held him there? This fight could very well go either way, I see it more likely to go in Brock's favor.
I don't see Fedor having the same chin as Mir, and geting TKO'd like that. He is smaller, faster, and has better hips on the bottom (imho). Remember that was a slower Mir who also bulked up to try and match Brock's size (like an idiot imho).
UGCTT_LnPninja - I don't see Fedor having the same chin as Mir, and geting TKO'd like that. He is smaller, faster, and has better hips on the bottom (imho). Remember that was a slower Mir who also bulked up to try and match Brock's size (like an idiot imho).
Prime Fedor wins.
Keep in mind how Mark Hunt was able to hold Fedor down. Now imagine the beast that is Brock on top of Fedor, only unloading those canned hams on the Russians head. Remember what Fedor looked like after Silva was on top of him for 2.5 minutes? I wont kid myself and claim Brock wins 100/100, I just see him as the odds on favorite to win 1/1 fight. It's a shame we didn't get to see it, we'd have our answer already.
