Going for a crank like that in practice – at that speed – is 100% a dick move meant to injure someone.
You’re talking about around the 1:07 mark right?
Thats a dick move for sure yes
Just adding a few things: 1) doing that in practice at that intensity is always a dick move; 2) slowly adding pressure is not a dick move; 3) doing it to someone with a fight coming up is an especially dick move.
Fighters with upcoming fights are often hyper sensitive. I had a guy with a UFC fight coming up lose his shit because I threw a spin-kick to the chest. I was sympathetic because fight camps were stressful. But, in this case, there was nothing sensitive. Legit dick move.
Do you think that particular move could ever work if it was applied gently?
Yeah. The shoulder crank.
I actually don’t think context matters much. There are certain types of rough-goes that are okay as retaliation. But, if you’re pissed at a guy, it is never okay to retaliate with a move like this. This would be like if he fully cranked a heel-hook. This move is the equivalent.
You’re mad at someone, handfight harder, put your hand over their mouth, squeeze the jaw even though you know you don’t have the choke – all fair for intense training. Doing a move that can cause instant injury at 100% – not okay under any training circumstances.
It lets the person know that it’s there. It’ll never get a tap against any good – but who cares? It’s training.
I watched the video 3-4 times now. I’m leaning towards it being a dick move. I would’ve liked to have seen it turn into an mma fight right then and there though.
The part where he says he could’ve broke if he wanted to, and then act like he didn’t do anything. He should be told not to come back until he knows this is training, and not possibly injure anyone that is having an upcoming fight. What a dick.
Looked too rough. If you’re training with an active fighter (particularly if they have a fight soon) why are you training to “win”? The entire purpose of them grappling here should have been to train the fighter, not potentially injure him. Who cares if you win? This is the lead-up to his moment. More would have come out of lightly pressuring that crank and saying “watch this setup”. I understand that is a sissy way to grapple, but again, the point is to improve, not win.
In a nutshell, this is one of the most infuriating aspects of grappling and one reason why I think teams such as DDS have had success - real teams rarely train to “win” and instead train to improve. When you get meathead gyms that spar all the time, you produce some incredible fighters, but also lots of injured could-have-beens.
As a general rule, I think if Person A thinks Person B is going too hard, Person B is going too hard. People show up to train for different reasons, but absolutely no one shows up to risk severe injury. With active fighters, it gets tricky. On one hand, they need live, hard goes to stress-test the system and their abilities. On the other hand, they need to be the most careful of all trainees as their livelihood depends on them performing.
I’ve never met Orlando Sanchez but I remember his last ADCC - he seems like a guy who goes too hard. Just my hunch. And hey, he’s been quite successful.
TL;DR - going too hard. Point is to improve, not win.
Agreed. He also made some inane comment about how the guy shouldn’t have put his arm in danger. Bro, it’s an underhook and you’ve got a huge weight advantage. It’s not cool to almost dislocate his shoulder to teach him a lesson about underhooks.
To my knowledge, Jon Jones – who messed up Glover’s shoulder with this move – didn’t hurt anyone in practice training it.
Wouldn’t have shown him hey if you have underhooks like this is could possibly happen, and not crank it like a dick? That’s what you do for training partners. Jason should tell him that he’s in timeout, and would let him know when he can come back.
Ok. I’m a wrestler first, and then I did BJJ for a while. I don’t claim to be an authority on BJJ when compared with true students of the game, but this exact thing happens in wrestling all the time. No one bitches and moans. No one talks shit about their training partner. It’s just part of the sport. If you want to wrestle, you learn not to dig for a half assed underhook or you might get your elbow/shoulder cranked like that. To do it with malicious intent is different, though. In that video, it just looked like an obese man who uses his size and power to compensate for a lack of skill. He can probably get away with it on 85-90% of the people who roll there. We need to know if the heavy guy is that way when he rolls because he uses power to win or to know if he did this with malicious intent, and that knowledge requires context that we simply do not have.
I’ve had a similar thing happen. It was 100% intent to injure.
Am I the only one who can’t stand that wobble-walk that some guys/ladies do when they have a big gut? Cringe.
Dick move too.
Dick move and it isn’t a fight stopper anyways. It will hurt but you can power through it. So basically you are just injuring the guy for no reason.
I don’t think there’s much debate on if it’s a dick move, but moreso the debate is was it justified with context that is missing.
Was the video chopped up? It seems as if they were arguing about something that took place off camera, then they clinched up and this happened. Or did they clinch up first, and the start of the video is them arguing about the underhook jerk motion that was shown later?