Dillonpeterliam - Dana made a good point at the UFC 177 post fight scrum, about Tyrone Woodley and almost everybody in the top 10 in all divisions.
As soon as a fighter gets in the top 10 they stop taken any fight and start worrying about there "Legacy" and were they rank rather than being a fighter. Jon Jones got his title shot on short notice, Now he refuses to fight anybody without a full camp, Tyrone Woodley was famous for blowing Dana's phone up only months ago, looking to fight ANYBODY, now he refuses to fight Lombard because he is ranked 3 spots behind him, the list of fighter goes on . . Now Gus is refusing to fight AJ even tho he knows Jones wont be ready (if he wins) to fight him for months and months! Everybody thinks there going to be Anderson Silva, I understand you need to have that mentality if you want to be the best, but your a fighter first! this is your Job that you chose, so fight. If you really think your the best fighter out there and your not scared of anybody then WHY would you turn down any fight!? the plan is to beat them all anyway right!? why not make as much money as you can while in this game? About 15% of fighters will do great things, break records and get the belt, but you can not bet on that and wait out when near the top, when you peak you should be most active. Look at Cowboy in 2014, he is making money, getting in Dana/UFC's good books and moving up the ranking's. I know Woodley just took a fight in Japan with a guy ranked lower, he made that card allot more exciting! why stop when he can stand out and get more bonus!?
This is just my opinion at the moment, when you see cards almost fall apart or lose exciting fights (177 & 178) it gets frustration hearing fighter turn down good fights.
What do you guys think of this situation?
Vu, one of the better posts I've read on this subject. And I agree completely.
What happens when they get cut for losing?
I guess if I was one of them in the back of my mind I would be worried. The time it takes to rise to thr top seems at least twice as long as the drop. The UFC had shown at times to be very selective in who goes and who stays. And guys who always srrp up are not guaranteed a job.
@ShowtimeWreckedMyLeever Cheers,
@SoCalMutt, Fighters that stay active and fight when called on usually do well when on a losing streak, Keep Dana happy you will keep getting paid - Frank Mir, Leonard Garcia.. Keep them happy long enough and you might end up like Liddel or Hughes.
Dillonpeterliam - Dana made a good point at the UFC 177 post fight scrum, about Tyrone Woodley and almost everybody in the top 10 in all divisions.
As soon as a fighter gets in the top 10 they stop taken any fight and start worrying about there "Legacy" and were they rank rather than being a fighter. Jon Jones got his title shot on short notice, Now he refuses to fight anybody without a full camp, Tyrone Woodley was famous for blowing Dana's phone up only months ago, looking to fight ANYBODY, now he refuses to fight Lombard because he is ranked 3 spots behind him, the list of fighter goes on . . Now Gus is refusing to fight AJ even tho he knows Jones wont be ready (if he wins) to fight him for months and months! Everybody thinks there going to be Anderson Silva, I understand you need to have that mentality if you want to be the best, but your a fighter first! this is your Job that you chose, so fight. If you really think your the best fighter out there and your not scared of anybody then WHY would you turn down any fight!? the plan is to beat them all anyway right!? why not make as much money as you can while in this game? About 15% of fighters will do great things, break records and get the belt, but you can not bet on that and wait out when near the top, when you peak you should be most active. Look at Cowboy in 2014, he is making money, getting in Dana/UFC's good books and moving up the ranking's. I know Woodley just took a fight in Japan with a guy ranked lower, he made that card allot more exciting! why stop when he can stand out and get more bonus!?
This is just my opinion at the moment, when you see cards almost fall apart or lose exciting fights (177 & 178) it gets frustration hearing fighter turn down good fights.
What do you guys think of this situation?
Vu, one of the better posts I've read on this subject. And I agree completely.
What happens when they get cut for losing?
I guess if I was one of them in the back of my mind I would be worried. The time it takes to rise to thr top seems at least twice as long as the drop. The UFC had shown at times to be very selective in who goes and who stays. And guys who always srrp up are not guaranteed a job.
@ShowtimeWreckedMyLeever Cheers,
@SoCalMutt, Fighters that stay active and fight when called on usually do well when on a losing streak, Keep Dana happy you will keep getting paid - Frank Mir, Leonard Garcia.. Keep them happy long enough and you might end up like Liddel or Hughes.
I see your point. But I still get the feeling it is not as consistent as it should be. Especially when the pay scale is an order of magnitude different between top ten and below, and between top ten and champ.
you make a good point, wonder if the uniform will make much difference (whenever it happens)
thatonedude - It sucks over all, but we aren't the ones getting physically beaten as a job so it's really up to them
This is a valid point.
No it's not. Do you get to have everything your way in your job? Maybe if you are self employed. But when you work for an organisation sometimes you get tasks you aren't excited about. Why is their career so different?
UFC is putting the shill PR effort into OVERDRIVE to get Gus to fight, like they're going to shame him into no waiting for the fight he was promised.
There are like 3 threads like this a week now and it's all Dana talks about when 'reporters' casually 'ask about Gus.'
This is all orchestrated bullshit by the UFC.
Luckily, Gus isn't American, doesn't live in the states right now, so I don't think he was raised with that 'never let someone question your manhood - 'murica' vibe and doesn't have to listen to the American media as much.
Let the man wait and fight Jones. It's his choice.
The earliers generations were more crazyass fighters, pure fighter, never refuse a fight!. This new generation comes to a sport that is much more evolved and manly much more known to the world. Where sponsors etc, are so important to them, that they think multiple times before just say YES, let's go to war! Losses don't look good for sponsors, fan base and all those things that are more important to them, than just fighting. These fighters acting this way, will never be as Great as The Spider and many more. Anderson Silva never refused a fight that i remember. If they want to be and loved like those fighters, gotta change their objectives.
1. Fighters are allowed to decide who they fight. They're under employment by the UFC. If they're told to fight the Easter Bunny on Hanukkah while a crowd of naked Rastafarians look on, hey, they need to.
2. UFC is shitty towards great and entertaining fighters who lose fights. This is where Pride shined. They didn't care if a fighter lost as long as he was exciting. UFC will often cut you at any opportunity if you lose, regardless of how entertaining you were. There's no incentive to put it on the line in this sort of business model.
I agree with your post except for your first point. Fighters are not employees of the UFC and therefore get none of the normal benefits that come along with being an employee. About the only upside to this is that they can refuse a fight. Also you can't force two people to fight - this isn't Ancient Rome with lions and a coliseum.
Glovegate - Because, generally speaking, you get paid fuck all until you get a belt.
If you're going to fight them all anyway, why not get paid well to do it? These guys they're fighting aren't chumps. If you step into the cage with them, any one of them could end your life.
How many lives have any of them ended in the cage? I think you're exaggerating for effect and all it's doing is bringing your credibility into question.
Glovegate - Because, generally speaking, you get paid fuck all until you get a belt.
If you're going to fight them all anyway, why not get paid well to do it? These guys they're fighting aren't chumps. If you step into the cage with them, any one of them could end your life.
How many lives have any of them ended in the cage? I think you're exaggerating for effect and all it's doing is bringing your credibility into question.
There have only been 4 deaths in the US during sanctioned MMA bouts. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatalities_in_mixed_martial_arts_contests That still doesn't change the fact that when you fight aomeone, sanctioned or not, the end result can be death. Also the person you were quoting said "any one of them could end your life". If you don't see that as a valid and true statement then I don't know what to tell you.
A 10 year old can end your life depending on circumstances. The point he made was any of them inside the cage can end your life and the fact is NOE of them have ended anyone's life inside the cage. It is an extremely far stretch to make the statement he made and I'm simply pointing that out. A MUCH better example would be hurt you or injure you. I think you know this too.
MMAHAWK - Woodley has fought 4 times in the last 9 1/2 months I don't think he is a good example here.
His point was that guys are willing to fight a lot to make it to the top ten but then become hesitant once they get there. Woodley is actually the perfect example. Woodley was a guy asking to fight anyone anywhere and probably complaining when guys above him were turning down fights with him. Now that he's made it, he's become the guy turning down fights and worrying about his brand.
It may suck for fans, but it's just how things work. The drawback of making everyone contractors is that they can't force them to fight. You can't blame the fighters for being more careful at the top because that's the smart thing to do. The value of wins and losses are exponentially higher the higher you go. Like Gustaffson said of Rumble, it's easy to be the one on the lower rung chirping at the guys above you. Shit rolls downward, shit talking floats upwards. Once you get to near the top every little move matters and you can't just take fights to take fights. At the same time they can't expect everyone to wait for them while they try to figure out what they're going to do next.
I love Cerrone and his "I'll fight anyone, any time" attitude. It's about as close to actual Budo as you can get. But I don't think anyone would call that tactic smart if he continued once he had a title shot in hand.
you explained it very well, there just needs to be some ballance
NewOldTRT09er - Has Cowboy ever had a title shot? No.
Nate Diaz who has a worse record has though.
That answers your question. The problem isn't the fighters, it's that title-shots and UFC strategy in general is run by a roided, bald, fat, wannabe tough guy instead of through a transparent and open system which fighters and fans understand.
After what Nate did to Cowboy, how could you imply Cowboy deserved a title shot, but Nate didn't? There is a transparent and open system for title shots: the contender that generates the most amount of interest gets the title shot.
JimmersonzGlove - Pride had it right. Cro cop and wand fought like six times a year. Nothing wrong with can crushing in between legit opponents
To emphasise my point, this is how I feel. Why remove the possibility of Gus or Rumble facing JBJ when they could both fight and beat someone else in between.
One of many counter-arguments to this is what's happened when fighters have stepped up only to lose and therefore miss big opportunities. Josh Thompson comes to mind but I know there are plenty others.
I'm not saying fighters should never fight but it's easy to (literally) sit at home and complain about this sort of thing when UFC holds all leverage.
It's called the Nick Diaz method. It's actually quite genius, but only if done correctly. I hear Brandon Vera is trying this as well but he misunderstood what moving the needle meant.
JimmersonzGlove - Pride had it right. Cro cop and wand fought like six times a year. Nothing wrong with can crushing in between legit opponents
To emphasise my point, this is how I feel. Why remove the possibility of Gus or Rumble facing JBJ when they could both fight and beat someone else in between.
I fucking hope Woodley takes the fight with Lombard. Actually I'll be happy either way, it'll probably be Lombard vs matt brown if Woodley doesn't take it soon
