Fighters who were really good but....

You questioned their heart for some reason. I'll give you two examples of fighters I put into this category. Sergio Martinez and Kostya Tsyzu. Sergio got beat down by Margarito and Kostya by Vince Phillips earlier in their careers. Neither one of them ever sought out a rematch with these guys after they peaked and that bothers me. Both those guys were still active and at or around their weight classes when Kostya and Sergio hit their primes. Why didn't they want to "make things right" or avenge those defeats? Hell, Miguel Cotto never looked the same after Margarito (and I don't doubt that Margarito cheated against Sergio & Cotto) but Cotto still sought out and got a rematch with him... and won! Certainly Tsyzu and Martinez would've been highly favored to beat Phillips and Margarito in rematches but they never even spoke of them to my knowledge. As a former fighter and fan, this doesn't sit well with me. Does anyone agree? Are there other fighters who you thought were very good but did something to make you question their heart or mental toughness?

acelino freitas, his career was essentially over when he walked off against corrales. he was an exceptional talent

An obvious example would be Mike Tyson. Tyson had blazing hand speed, terrific power in both hands and good technical ability, but he lacked the strength of character necessary to be all-time great and was never able to dig deep to overcome adversity. On a lessor scale, I think that Zab Judah and Victor Ortiz also merit mention along with a host of other guys such as Donald Curry, Jermain Taylor, Andre Berto, etc. Phone Post 3.0

I never really bought the hype but Lucian bute
What a mental midget
No bollocks at all, he's an on top fighter. The moment it starts to get on top of him he's done for. Phone Post 3.0

Michael Nunn,

buddie - Michael Nunn,
Nunn? He lost the toney fight on a Hail Mary. And time has shown that toney ended up being pretty good. Phone Post 3.0

pharochuck - 
buddie - Michael Nunn,
Nunn? He lost the toney fight on a Hail Mary. And time has shown that toney ended up being pretty good. Phone Post 3.0

Hail Mary is a bit unfair. Been a while since I watched it, but I remember Toney going for and landing the same punch a few times before he finally got the KO

nunn was on his way to a clear cut decision. outboxing toney pretty easily and when you think about how good toney ended up being, that makes nunn's skills even more impressive

Just before Hatton fought Tszyu, I read an interview with Hatton where he said that the reason he knew he would beat Tszyu was because Tszyu never tried to rematch Phillips so he knew if he made the fight absolute hell for him, Tszyu would eventually quit. After the fight, there was a thread in the Australia forum on here where Aussies were quoting Tszyu as saying he would never quit but had done just that.

Personally I believe that Tszyu could have come out for the last round, and just didn't want to.

A bit of decoration for the thread.

My former trainer worked Kostya's corner for the Hatton fight. I watched it with a few other guys who fought for him. When he quit, we caught a glimpse of Scott's face and we broke out laughing because we could see how pissed he was. He later told me that he tried to talk Kostya and his lead corner out of it between rounds. It's been a few years, so not verbatim but the gist is true: "Are you fucking kidding me? You're 3 minutes away from the Hall of Fame win or lose. You fucking quit and you jeopardize all of that!" He quit. Phone Post 3.0

What I found even odder about him not coming out for the last round vs Hatton is that a lot of people had the fight close and Hatton wasn't really hurting him much. Was Tszyu tired? Yes, very, but he wasn't really hurt. Also, while he had not had success with it throughout the fight, he also obviously had massive 1 shot power.

ShamusO'nyou - 
pharochuck - 
buddie - Michael Nunn,
Nunn? He lost the toney fight on a Hail Mary. And time has shown that toney ended up being pretty good. Phone Post 3.0

Hail Mary is a bit unfair. Been a while since I watched it, but I remember Toney going for and landing the same punch a few times before he finally got the KO

I think Nunn could have been really great, but he didn't seem to care enough about his career. He seemed more into being a gangster. He didn't seem overly interested in getting a re-match either.

buddie - 
ShamusO'nyou - 
pharochuck - 
buddie - Michael Nunn,
Nunn? He lost the toney fight on a Hail Mary. And time has shown that toney ended up being pretty good. Phone Post 3.0

Hail Mary is a bit unfair. Been a while since I watched it, but I remember Toney going for and landing the same punch a few times before he finally got the KO

I think Nunn could have been really great, but he didn't seem to care enough about his career. He seemed more into being a gangster. He didn't seem overly interested in getting a re-match either.


yes, i know he was more of a thug than a fighter. but he still was 58-4 and held titles at 160 & 168. if he would have focused he could have been 70-0. thats how good a fighter he was that at 58-4 and holding 2 belts that he defended several times he is considered an under achiever. 

He didn't try to get a rematch with the DEA either.

U4EA - He didn't try to get a rematch with the DEA either.


that was a clean knock out.  

I don't question Kostya's heart in the phillips fight. I question his head. He took about 5 million right hands without ever trying something different. I am surprised he lasted as long as he did to be honest. <br />

Kirkland Laing

Guy was a beast who barely trained and had some of the best boxing.

Shame he loved his reggae and weed more than money and fighting!! Phone Post 3.0

fearOfABlackPlanet - I don't question Kostya's heart in the phillips fight. I question his head. He took about 5 million right hands without ever trying something different. I am surprised he lasted as long as he did to be honest. <br />
The reason I questioned him was because he never sought a rematch. Phone Post 3.0

fearOfABlackPlanet - I don't question Kostya's heart in the phillips fight. I question his head. He took about 5 million right hands without ever trying something different. I am surprised he lasted as long as he did to be honest.


That's pretty much how it went in the Phillips fight except Phillips could thump, and thump with everything. Tszyu's punch resistance was utterly remarkable but Phillips just blasted away, with lots going into the body and there is only so much any guy can take before they crumble. Kill the body and the head will die...